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CanadaManada
05-11-2009, 02:55 PM
I've got 3 Merlin/Tracker Maximas, 3 Marshall FMs, and for Brian Sullivan, I managed to get my hands on one Comspec R-400.
I'm devising a number of tests and will be back tomorrow to post transmitter pics.
On first impression, the new Marshall is much smaller and robust than my old FM5, which nonetheless found a lost gos that one time I needed it.
The Merlin and Tracker Maxima Completes appear identical in every way, thus far. Both are robust and well assembled. Unless I can lay hands on a 216Mhz Merlin, I will not be able to match these, head to head,as I'd wanted. I'm still trying to locate one, however.
The Comspec looks to be a bit oldschool. I have the older antenna, which I am assured has the same sensitivity specs as the newer, flashier one. The Comspec's box appears to be made of stamped metal. It doesn't feel very strong in the hand, but like most modern receivers, it is light.
As for sound, when the new Marshall is turned on and the volume maxed, nothing dramatic happens. The Comspec is not bad in this respect. The Merlins/Trackers do however make an awful racket when the gain/volume is cranked up.
The Merlin holster is nicer than that of the Tracker - by far. The Marshall holsters all fit well, and unfortunately I have no case for the Comspec, though I hear one is available.

Here's the rundown of the receivers in the test:
Marshall FM4000 (Gulf model) 216, 217, 218, 219Mhz 4 full bands
Marshall FM100 173Mhz 1 full band
Marshall FM2000 433, 434Mhz 2 Full bands
Tracker Maxima Complete 1000/10 216Mhz 1 full band
Merlin Maxima Complete 1000/25 173Mhz 1 full band
Merlin Maxima Complete 2000/25 432, 433Mhz 2 full bands
Comspec R-400 216,217,218,219Mhz 4 full bands

I'll get back on here tomorrow night, Japan time, and post some pics of the transmitters I will be using in the test. I have Saker, Marshall, and Merlin transmitters.
I've bought these receivers with my own money, and I am giving my own time in the interest of finding the answer to the question, "What's the best telemetry system for ME, where I live, in Japan?"
Like anyone genuinely trying to do good, I'll surely get slammed for this by some, but in the end, the information will be out there for falconers to use when purchasing their telemetry.

This is gonna be fun!
Justin

CanadaManada
05-11-2009, 02:57 PM
The remainder of today's pics:

AndyHawks
05-11-2009, 03:05 PM
good idea.might be a first!any of them for sale when you finished lol

Tooker
05-11-2009, 03:14 PM
Looks wise, the Marshall wins for me!

ShadyShep
05-11-2009, 03:49 PM
personally im struck with the amount of choice there is on the market and being new to this im undecided on what system to go for so i will be watching this thread with interest, hopefully it will give me more info as to what i should be looking for in a system,

Dave G
05-11-2009, 04:16 PM
Good going will follow this to see which comes out on top hope its the tracker lol ;)

Little Joe
05-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Nice one Justin! I wish I had so much spare cash lying around to buy all those lovely toys just for fun... :D

Im watching this outcome with interest. I'd like to know how exactly you will test and compare, but maybe Im jumping the gun, so I'll be patient.

Regards, Jannes

Aman
05-11-2009, 05:33 PM
This is going to be awesome :supz: Thanks for taking your time out to do this.

Byron50
05-11-2009, 07:45 PM
hi mate if the marshall100 173 for sale after ill buy it cheers byron

Kev1299
05-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Speaking of the FM100 I see you on your list it's down as 1 full band, I was under the impression that the 100 stood for 100 frequencies ie 173.200-173.299 and equal to a 10 channel system not a 100 channel covering the whole of 173.

CanadaManada
06-11-2009, 12:11 AM
Speaking of the FM100 I see you on your list it's down as 1 full band, I was under the impression that the 100 stood for 100 frequencies ie 173.200-173.299 and equal to a 10 channel system not a 100 channel covering the whole of 173.

Kev,
You are right. My mistake there. It is indeed 173.200-299 but is a 100 channel system. Modern, whole band receivers have 1000 channels on each band.

Justin

MiamiButeo
06-11-2009, 12:58 AM
Hi Justin,

Indeed what a great idea, and yes lucky to have that much money to spend in the name of personal research.

Will also be watching with interest.

We are using the Fin Tracker Maxima here so will be interesting to see what your results throw up.

Have fun

Al

CanadaManada
06-11-2009, 08:01 AM
Hi Justin,

Indeed what a great idea, and yes lucky to have that much money to spend in the name of personal research.

Will also be watching with interest.

We are using the Fin Tracker Maxima here so will be interesting to see what your results throw up.

Have fun

Al

Thaks for the kind words Al, and everyone else.
I'll be posting the transmitter pics in a few hours, after I get out of the office.
Can't wait to do my "bucket test" on those! :box:
Al, what frequency are you on with the Fin Tracker?

Justin

Miliscer
06-11-2009, 08:39 AM
Justin,

I have the Tracker maxima complete in 216mhz

Mike

CanadaManada
06-11-2009, 08:45 AM
Justin,

I have the Tracker maxima complete in 216mhz

Mike

I've got one too, Mike. I am looking for the Merlin Maxima Complete in 216, to do a side-by-side on them.

Justin

FalconFred
06-11-2009, 08:59 AM
Thaks for the kind words Al, and everyone else.
I'll be posting the transmitter pics in a few hours, after I get out of the office.
Can't wait to do my "bucket test" on those! :box:
Al, what frequency are you on with the Fin Tracker?

Justin


The bucket test entrigues{sp} me, beginning to have a sickly feeling already, after having upgraded my old system last wk. I just wish the test came sooner, and that, I hope I wont be regretting my purchase. Is there any conclusive set of tests which would give a diffinitive answer as to which system is the out and out best in all types of terrain. My understanding of it all is that certain frequency bands work better in certain terrain types, achieving better distances, and more pin-point accuracy. Therefore isn't safe to conclude that perhaps even the less sensitive cheaper set-ups could outperform top end systems that are operating on a different band as they always would be held within the constraints of the band that you are using/testing in constant terrain type. To try and clarify my point/question , If you are operating in the same terrain, but using a number of different sets, covering a number of bands. Could your results be influenced on the suitability of the band choosen for your terrain type to begin with .ie. 433mhz is best suited to your terrain, so 433mhz on all systems will throw out favourable distances and accuracies etc, over 216mhz all the time?
I wish you well in your test .

atb

Gerard

Kev1299
06-11-2009, 01:31 PM
Kev, It is indeed 173.200-299 but is a 100 channel system. Modern, whole band receivers have 1000 channels on each band.Justin
Although marketed as a "100 channel" system I can't see how it is. Each transmitter normally needs + or - 5kHz either side of it's designated frequency for fine tuning and therefore one channel would be 10kHz wide. As the FM100 covers 173.200 - 173.299 (100kHz) that makes it equivalent to say a Luksander MN10 a 10 channel receiver, and a receiver covering 1 full band (1000kHz) is a "100 channel" model.
Unless I'm missing something.:?:
Kev.

CanadaManada
06-11-2009, 01:41 PM
As promised, the Transmitters.
86124

86125


86127

Pic 1, left to right 216Mhz
Merlin 392
Marshall RT+
Marshall Powermax
Saker (perhaps they are now out of business as their website seems to have disappeared)

Pic 2 left to right 433Mhz
RT
Scout Turbo

Pic 3 173 left to right 173Mhz

Marshall Micro, Scout, RT+, Powermax

My impressions are that the Marshalls and Merlin are both well made. The Saker looks like it was made by some 12 year olds for Science Day and the tailmount wire clip falls off it almost every time I handle it - which I can imagine resulting in its possible loss.
The antennas on the 433s are quite short, as expected.

Justin

TLDWB
06-11-2009, 02:03 PM
I've been using the same Marshall's receiver for over ten years. Going to replace it early next year, so this is a thread is worth watching.

Your effort is to be applauded.

Tom

Paco
06-11-2009, 02:47 PM
It would be interesting to compare a 433 Tyniloc also.( receptor and transmiter).

Little Joe
06-11-2009, 04:22 PM
I've been using the same Marshall's receiver for over ten years. Going to replace it early next year, so this is a thread is worth watching.

Your effort is to be applauded.

Tom

Been using Marshall Houbara 2 with RT+ for about 4 years now (but the time is deceptive, because I flew 4 birds a day, 12 months a year) - in city and open terrian. Tracked enough birds to know the system very very thoroughly. I am also following this thread intently and I dont foresee any system beating it. But I'll try keeping an open mind... :D

Brilliant thread, I rated it 5 star immediately!

Go Justin!!!

CanadaManada
06-11-2009, 11:34 PM
It would be interesting to compare a 433 Tyniloc also.( receptor and transmiter).

It sure would but the Japanese distributor sells them for the equivalent of 2000GBP over here.
In the future I think I may be able to get my hands on a loaner unit.
Justin

CanadaManada
06-11-2009, 11:36 PM
Jannes,
Do you know anyone using these Saker Telemetry transmitters?

Justin

MiamiButeo
07-11-2009, 12:05 AM
Thaks for the kind words Al, and everyone else.
I'll be posting the transmitter pics in a few hours, after I get out of the office.
Can't wait to do my "bucket test" on those! :box:
Al, what frequency are you on with the Fin Tracker?

Justin


We are on the 216, at least I am failry certain. Did loko yesterday when I first read the thread but will check and let you know if I have got that wrong.

With that we are running Marshall RT + transmitters.

Little Joe
07-11-2009, 01:23 AM
Jannes,
Do you know anyone using these Saker Telemetry transmitters?

Justin

No bru, only Marshall and Tracker.

Hawking
07-11-2009, 11:31 PM
Any results yet?

Aman
08-11-2009, 08:01 AM
On the Marshal Website their is a transitter called an RT Standard, supposedly more powerfull than the Power Max, do you possibly have access to one of these?

CanadaManada
10-11-2009, 01:40 AM
I'm in the process of testing the individual frequencies. Yesterday I ran through the 216s in just about the worst place anyone would want to turn on a receiver - high tension electrical towers running along like a giant curtain. Ahh, pastoral Japan, and all its beauty...:roll:
Today the 173s and 433s are up.
Once that's out of the way, I'll tell you how everything fared in this, my first of a few different tests. After this will be a transmitter output test, whereby I remove the antennas from the transmitters, and walk off until they lose signal, with the receiver gain set to max. Then it'll be the "bucket test".

Justin

CanadaManada
10-11-2009, 02:49 PM
Today I ran the 433 and 173 systems against eachother.
I chose to duplicate yesterday's tests to see which bands are affected most by the interferance coming from the transmition lines. The 433 Marshall with the RT performed best, the 173 Marshall coming in a close second with the 173 Merlin coming in 3rd, both picking up signal from the Powermax. All receivers had serious noise issues with the Mrshalls being the best. I guess their noise filtering is something they've spent some time on. The 216 systems picked up nothing as all were completely swamped with static from the transmission lines very closeby. I will try them all again with noise-cancelling headphones in an effort to pick up anything I may have missed the first time. Headphones make a big difference on faint signals. I'm certain something is getting through; I just have to be able to hear it.

Today's and yesterday's tests were at a distance of 12.5 Kilometres, in just about the worst conditions I could think of. I don't feel I'd ever have to find a bird under conditions like these. The transmitters were positioned hanging from my open window, on the 3rd floor of my condo (Red dot, bottom, left), in a concrete building, facing away from the receivers. The receivers were ran over at my house, which is outside the city of Sapporo (Red dot, top right). In the line-of-sight were numerous concrete buildings, the grey you see on the map (just about the whole city is concrete!), a 4 lane elevated highway (Route 274), two dykes, two sets of high tension transmittion lines, and two large steel bridge spans. The signals had a hard time getting through and around all that junk.

Like I said, I wll run the 216s out there again. I feel I missed something yesterday, as I got signal at frequencies higher and lower than 216.

Today's conclusions:
The Saker transmitter has a very slowwww beep. I think one could easily miss it if sweeping the antenna back and forth, searching for a signal in all directions. The Tracker/Merlin Maxima receivers took ages for me to program to all frequencies, then I couldn't locate the memory slots, so had to enter each frequency in turn, scrolling up and down through channels, which took me ages. I know that guys who use these regularly have no such problems, but for me, the analog controls on the Marshalls and the Comspec took mere seconds to tune, and left no doubt. Changing frequencies was as easy as punching the tuning buttons.

Next:
I have a walk away test, wherein I'll remove the antennas and test transmitter output. After that, I'll try and kill as many of those things as I can by putting them powered on, into a bucket of water overnight.
I want to do a line-of sight test from a small mountaintop here, just to see which transmitters I can pick up, out near my house. This is to simulate a potential loss situation for the two falcons I will be flying out there. If they stay out in my area, or come into the city, I want to know I can get signal, and on which bands, with which transmitters.

Sorry for the boring Google Map image, I'll have more interesting pics, next time.

Justin

CanadaManada
10-11-2009, 02:53 PM
On the Marshal Website their is a transitter called an RT Standard, supposedly more powerfull than the Power Max, do you possibly have access to one of these?

I don't, unfortunately. It was outside my pricerange.

Justin

Tony James
10-11-2009, 03:27 PM
Hi Justin,

this is very interesting stuff, and having had a go myself at devising a series of tests for telemetry systems, I know it takes quite some effort.
I'll not be changing my system in the foreseeable future, but nonetheless I'll be reading with interest.
Good stuff and well done,

Tony.

CanadaManada
12-11-2009, 05:16 AM
On the Marshal Website their is a transitter called an RT Standard, supposedly more powerfull than the Power Max, do you possibly have access to one of these?

Aman,
If I am not mistaken, the 433 RT is an "RT Standard". The shape looks right, although my owner's manual calls it the "RT".

Justin

Kev1299
12-11-2009, 09:06 AM
Aman,
If I am not mistaken, the 433 RT is an "RT Standard". The shape looks right, although my owner's manual calls it the "RT".

Justin
As said before, 433 needs double the power of the lower frequency to get similar range. So maybe it makes it simpler to make it as per "RT standard" to get the power, but call it an RT because that's what it's performance is equal to.
Out of interest how does the price compare between a 433 and a 216 RT?

OutFlying
12-11-2009, 09:20 AM
433 RT is an RT turbo.

RT Standard is a different transmitter with a 13" aerial.

All Rt's - Rt turbo, Rt + and Rt standard - all share the same body design and look identical.

Jim.

Kev1299
12-11-2009, 09:46 AM
Perhaps Marshall just haven't updated their pictures yet then, as the RT+ looks like it has a different body to the RT standard.

OutFlying
12-11-2009, 10:06 AM
Perhaps Marshall just haven't updated their pictures yet then, as the RT+ looks like it has a different body to the RT standard.

The original RT+ is the same body design as the standard.

Little Joe
12-11-2009, 10:21 AM
Hi Justin,

My apologies if I missed a post stating this, but are you testing in an urban area or flat country?

Regards, Jannes

CanadaManada
12-11-2009, 11:59 AM
Hi Justin,

My apologies if I missed a post stating this, but are you testing in an urban area or flat country?

Regards, Jannes

Jannes,
Both, my friend. I will be living in a flat area, but just a mile or two away is city. I have to know what the telemetry will do in both.

Justin

CanadaManada
12-11-2009, 12:01 PM
Perhaps Marshall just haven't updated their pictures yet then, as the RT+ looks like it has a different body to the RT standard.

It does have a different body.
I have RT+s in my test and one RT (according to the manual and what I ordered).

Kev1299
12-11-2009, 12:27 PM
It does have a different body.
Thought so.:wink:
"Mikes Falconry" lists both RT+ and RT Standard available on 433Mhz, so either the 433 RT+ is in a different case to its 216 brother or you have a 433Mhz RT Standard.

Little Joe
12-11-2009, 12:31 PM
Jannes,
Both, my friend. I will be living in a flat area, but just a mile or two away is city. I have to know what the telemetry will do in both.

Justin

Thanks bru. Looking forward to your distance results.

Wonder why doesnt Merlin come up with something better? That transmitter of theirs really looks home made!:-x

CanadaManada
12-11-2009, 02:06 PM
Thought so.:wink:
"Mikes Falconry" lists both RT+ and RT Standard available on 433Mhz, so either the 433 RT+ is in a different case to its 216 brother or you have a 433Mhz RT Standard.

I suppose I could ask, and get clarification on that, seeing as how Mike's doesn't offer an "RT" in 433.
My guess, and right now it is only a guess, is that there is an RT+, known as the RT Turbo (UK name???), and mine is the RT "Standard":idea:. It beat the snot out of every other transmitter I've fired up, so far in my test. I'm doing an output test on those transmitters, probably on Sunday, so I'll be able to tell you what bangs and what doesn't.

Justin

CanadaManada
12-11-2009, 02:32 PM
Thanks bru. Looking forward to your distance results.

Wonder why doesnt Merlin come up with something better? That transmitter of theirs really looks home made!:-x

Jannes,
If you look on that map I posted, all that green to the East and North is flat farmland - mostly rice and onions.

Yeah, Merlin has a ways to go to on their design. But I guess for some guys, if it beeps, that's all they care about. I'll find out if that's all there is to it with my bucket test!
Justin

911
17-11-2009, 12:43 AM
Marshall has in catalog:

RT +
RT Standard
RT Turbo
RT Elite

Could Marshall someone explain the confusion?
I want to buy the most powerful of 433-434.


Thanks.

CanadaManada
17-11-2009, 02:10 PM
Sorry guys. I've been moving house. Once I'm settled in on the weekend, I'll get back to trashing some telemetry!!!

Justin

Little Joe
17-11-2009, 03:36 PM
Sorry guys. I've been moving house. Once I'm settled in on the weekend, I'll get back to trashing some telemetry!!!

Justin

My sympaties - I f****g hate moving!

Dont play house too long Justin, you got me very intrigued here. I want to see distance results.

Jannes

CanadaManada
01-12-2009, 03:17 PM
I'm all moved into my new house and the contractors finally cleared out, yesterday. Now I'm building mews and other things but I now have both my falcons on the wing. My choice for which frequency to use was easy, 433Mhz. I'll switch to 216 next week for comparison, but the size of the 433, the range, and the lack of interference makes it the best for me, right here.

I'll do my bucket test tomorrow. The only thing that was keeping me from doing it earlier was that it is next to impossible for me to find batteries for the small Merlin transmitter. I've looked just about everywhere and finally found them, but let me tell you, it wasn't easy. I even went so far as to order some from China on Ebay, but they wouldn't fit in the transmitter, they were too big!!! I have 2 new Maxell batteries, although they are on the small side! I don't know what the deal is but these button cell batteries seem to be all over the place, size-wise.
So, tomorrow, the bucket test, wherein I'll fire up all transmitters, and thow each and every one into a bucket of COLD water, then leave them outside overnight. The ones that survive make it along to the distance/output test. Those that perform best in that test will have to survive the shock test before final judgement.
The receivers are all going to get a soaking, as well. Some will live - some will die... Ahhhhhhhh, manufacturers warranties! I'm gonna have some items to return, I think.
;)

Justin

RobCole66
02-12-2009, 12:02 AM
I like your thoroughness Justin and i/we all look forward to the out come of the battle for telemetry supremacy :supz:, no quarter asked none given i supose:lol:

rob cole.....


I'm all moved into my new house and the contractors finally cleared out, yesterday. Now I'm building mews and other things but I now have both my falcons on the wing. My choice for which frequency to use was easy, 433Mhz. I'll switch to 216 next week for comparison, but the size of the 433, the range, and the lack of interference makes it the best for me, right here.

I'll do my bucket test tomorrow. The only thing that was keeping me from doing it earlier was that it is next to impossible for me to find batteries for the small Merlin transmitter. I've looked just about everywhere and finally found them, but let me tell you, it wasn't easy. I even went so far as to order some from China on Ebay, but they wouldn't fit in the transmitter, they were too big!!! I have 2 new Maxell batteries, although they are on the small side! I don't know what the deal is but these button cell batteries seem to be all over the place, size-wise.
So, tomorrow, the bucket test, wherein I'll fire up all transmitters, and thow each and every one into a bucket of COLD water, then leave them outside overnight. The ones that survive make it along to the distance/output test. Those that perform best in that test will have to survive the shock test before final judgement.
The receivers are all going to get a soaking, as well. Some will live - some will die... Ahhhhhhhh, manufacturers warranties! I'm gonna have some items to return, I think.
;)

Justin

CanadaManada
02-12-2009, 07:04 AM
I like your thoroughness Justin and i/we all look forward to the out come of the battle for telemetry supremacy :supz:, no quarter asked none given i supose:lol:

rob cole.....

Rob,
It's all good to me. Whichever comes out on top gets to stay here.
I'm just about to leave the office now and tonight, I'll gear up a big bucket of transmitter soup!

Justin

CanadaManada
02-12-2009, 01:32 PM
Here's something I bet none of you have seen before: TRANSMITTER SOUP!
I'll let it stew overnight and see how it tastes, in the morning. All transmitters were operating perfectly at the moment of immersion.

Justin

HolyWood
02-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Here's something I bet none of you have seen before: TRANSMITTER SOUP!
I'll let it stew overnight and see how it tastes, in the morning. All transmitters were operating perfectly at the moment of immersion.

Justinits a first for me justin i,m sure you have some heads turning :supz:

Aman
02-12-2009, 04:43 PM
its a first for me justin i,m sure you have some heads turning :supz:

Looks real Good, don't know if i would be able to afford the ingredient's though :rolleyes:, what do you think Jamie Oliver will make of this....

MiamiButeo
03-12-2009, 12:18 AM
Hi Justin,

Ran a `live` 40 hour test last weekend with our 216`s (though not intenetionally!). End result was the safe return of the falcon but I hate bloody working in woodland trying to pinpoint a signal.

Have you found any preference with regards to `signal bounce` either in woodland or even build up areas with any of the transmitters in your studies?

Al

CanadaManada
03-12-2009, 08:18 AM
Hi Justin,

Ran a `live` 40 hour test last weekend with our 216`s (though not intenetionally!). End result was the safe return of the falcon but I hate bloody working in woodland trying to pinpoint a signal.

Have you found any preference with regards to `signal bounce` either in woodland or even build up areas with any of the transmitters in your studies?

Al

Al,
I have noticed that the 173 has better penetration in woodland. In the end of this, I think I will take 216Mhz for the best of both worlds, and the 433Mhz for longwings.
What bird did you have to go and find? Did it eat anything whilst away?

Justin

CanadaManada
03-12-2009, 08:22 AM
I looked in the bucket on my way out, this morning. What I saw in there was something shocking happening! It has totally changed how I think about transmitters.
I'll get pics up later, after I return home.

Justin

CanadaManada
04-12-2009, 12:05 AM
After 12 hours, the Merlin MX392 displayed significant corrosion (rust, for lack of a better term) at the battery head and terminal contact.
After 24 hours, when I took these pics, the corrosion was severe, as you can see from the yellow stain spreading out from the Merlin transmitter in the bottom of the bucket.
All Marshall transmitters were still transmitting after 24 hours in very cold water. The Merlin was not, as water was able to reach the + and - terminals. The Merlin now has very serious corrosion on the battery terminals which once dried, I will have to attempt to remove with a dremel tool to see if I can revive the transmitter.
The Saker was still transmitting but upon opening the case, there was a small amount of water inside. The water was only in contact with the + terminal, as the head was slightly angled down. If the transmitter had been lying flat in the water there would almost certainly have been a short of the + and - terminals, thus stopping the transmitter.
Upon inspection, there was no water entry, whatsoever into any of the Marshall transmitters.
Had these been on a bird which killed in shallow water, the Merlin would have been in serious trouble, the Saker would probably been ok for a while and the Marshalls would have suffered no ill effects. Now, if these transmitters had been lost in shallow water, as can happen when our birds tussle with prey, the Merlin would not have been recoverable, as there is nothing to seal out the water, the Saker would have some time available for recovery before the inevitable entry of water, and the Marshalls would have been pulsing away, waiting for recovery.
I would like to add that should anyone question the validity of my test, I encourage anyone to do exactly as I have done.

In conclusion, I won't put another "open-type" transmitter with battery exposure on my birds. It's too risky; based on this test. I'd be too concerned about potential problems associated with water entry to put my full trust in and when it comes down to it, we use telemetry for when "potential" problems become real ones.

Justin

Next up, once the wet transmitters are dried out and cleaned up, I'll have to try and get some distance and take the receivers up one of the mountains on the edge of the city, which is the practical limit of what I can do here, given the geography. There will probably be more interesting pics from that test, too. Climbing mountains is one of the great things to do here in Japan.

MiamiButeo
04-12-2009, 12:43 AM
Hi Justin,

It was a Saker that went. Mainly because of the bloody woodland clearing we have to fly in. He wanted to come back from the start but due to his handling over the past three years he lacked the confidence to come in and bind to the lure in a tight area and then got unsighted once over the trees and just straight lined it.

Which is virtually the line I found him on 3 km or so away.

Took two or three attempts to get him back down on the lure, yes you have guessed it in more woodland, but fortunately for me I strongly suspect he hadn`t eaten while out.

Interesting `bucket results` though I guess not too surprising with the Merlin although maybe to the extent of the damage.

Always been a bit of a fan of Marshall and so far you are not knocking that.

:)

Nice work, interesting and valuable.

Starting to look into the possibilty of a Feb trip up to see the Stellars, got any tips or experience?

Al.

CanadaManada
04-12-2009, 09:05 AM
Hi Justin,

It was a Saker that went. Mainly because of the bloody woodland clearing we have to fly in. He wanted to come back from the start but due to his handling over the past three years he lacked the confidence to come in and bind to the lure in a tight area and then got unsighted once over the trees and just straight lined it.

Which is virtually the line I found him on 3 km or so away.

Took two or three attempts to get him back down on the lure, yes you have guessed it in more woodland, but fortunately for me I strongly suspect he hadn`t eaten while out.

Interesting `bucket results` though I guess not too surprising with the Merlin although maybe to the extent of the damage.

Always been a bit of a fan of Marshall and so far you are not knocking that.

:)

Nice work, interesting and valuable.

Starting to look into the possibilty of a Feb trip up to see the Stellars, got any tips or experience?

Al.

Al,
I think Gary and his missus were up here a couple years back to check out the stellar's. Anytime you're up this way, I have a spare room available.
There is a male white-tailed sea eagle hanging around not far from my house nowadays. I was thinking of seeing if I can get him to come into a pigeon on a string, you know, to pose for a few pics and all that with his free lunch.
Glad you got the Saker back. I guess he hasn't been up to much the past few years.

Justin

911
04-12-2009, 11:37 AM
Thank you very much for the fantastic test.

Are you also immerse Receivers 24 hours in water? :razz::razz::razz:

MiamiButeo
05-12-2009, 01:05 AM
Al,
I think Gary and his missus were up here a couple years back to check out the stellar's. Anytime you're up this way, I have a spare room available.
There is a male white-tailed sea eagle hanging around not far from my house nowadays. I was thinking of seeing if I can get him to come into a pigeon on a string, you know, to pose for a few pics and all that with his free lunch.
Glad you got the Saker back. I guess he hasn't been up to much the past few years.

Justin


Hi

Yes think Gary comes up regularly, already hitting him hard for info! :D

Thanks for the offer of a bed, always appriecated.

As for the falcons, before I got here I don`t think they were ever taken off the creance, always just a straight catch! If they did have them loose ever it was only for one pass off the perch before a catch.

Little Joe
05-12-2009, 06:13 AM
Hi Justin,

Ran a `live` 40 hour test last weekend with our 216`s (though not intenetionally!). End result was the safe return of the falcon but I hate bloody working in woodland trying to pinpoint a signal.

Have you found any preference with regards to `signal bounce` either in woodland or even build up areas with any of the transmitters in your studies?

Al

Tracking in built areas can be very tricky, especially with skyscrapers having large windows. I spent two days once guarding a big building only to eventually find out my bird is 2 km in the opposite direction. The way to overcome bounce in a situation like this is to get on top of the highest building you can found and get a signal from there.

Jiff
05-12-2009, 06:34 AM
at the end of the day if you can't see the bird( not litteraly) you cant track it if it's behind a hill or a house youre knackered if it's in a wood youre even worse off as the signal transmited can bounce off any object and give a false df, if you practice long and hard, regardless if it's a 2000 pound tellem set or a 120 quid ferret finder, you can tell the differance between bounced signals and true signals, there are too manny people paying too much money for tellem and then expecting it to do the dinner and wash up! they are only any good if you know exactly what youre looking at, if you have no idea then youre waisting youre money regardless of the spec of the system, i could bounce a blip off the moon to anyones radio but if they don't know what it sounds like they will never know i've done it, learn to use tellem dont get rid and buy a so called better one.

CanadaManada
05-12-2009, 07:37 AM
at the end of the day if you can't see the bird( not litteraly) you cant track it if it's behind a hill or a house youre knackered if it's in a wood youre even worse off as the signal transmited can bounce off any object and give a false df, if you practice long and hard, regardless if it's a 2000 pound tellem set or a 120 quid ferret finder, you can tell the differance between bounced signals and true signals, there are too manny people paying too much money for tellem and then expecting it to do the dinner and wash up! they are only any good if you know exactly what youre looking at, if you have no idea then youre waisting youre money regardless of the spec of the system, i could bounce a blip off the moon to anyones radio but if they don't know what it sounds like they will never know i've done it, learn to use tellem dont get rid and buy a so called better one.


Always a breath of fresh air, Jiff...:-|

Sorry, but a 2000 pound set will certainly perform better than a ferret finder, and can and in many cases will work from behind obstacles. If you don't believe me, and you probably don't, get on one of the hog hunting forums and ask them what their dog telemetry can do.
Funny thing that I tracked a goshawk which was on the ground, behind a Japanese farmhouse, last year. The signal appeared to be coming from the house, and was not "bounce". I could not see the bird, and I was in no way "knackered". Diffraction. Science!

Justin

Little Joe
05-12-2009, 08:56 PM
Always a breath of fresh air, Jiff...:-|

Sorry, but a 2000 pound set will certainly perform better than a ferret finder, and can and in many cases will work from behind obstacles. If you don't believe me, and you probably don't, get on one of the hog hunting forums and ask them what their dog telemetry can do.
Funny thing that I tracked a goshawk which was on the ground, behind a Japanese farmhouse, last year. The signal appeared to be coming from the house, and was not "bounce". I could not see the bird, and I was in no way "knackered". Diffraction. Science!

Justin

I agree Justin. A good telemetry set is worth its weight in gold. With a little experience in tracking and getting to know your system you can always find your bird. Or at least the transmitter... In extreme scenario's (city centres) it can be very difficult, in other scenarios it can be mildly challenging (woodlands and mountains), but without telemetry it would be impossible!

MiamiButeo
06-12-2009, 12:06 AM
I agree Justin. A good telemetry set is worth its weight in gold. With a little experience in tracking and getting to know your system you can always find your bird. Or at least the transmitter... In extreme scenario's (city centres) it can be very difficult, in other scenarios it can be mildly challenging (woodlands and mountains), but without telemetry it would be impossible!

Absolutely, cost me a couple of hours in the wrong place but the end result was I got the bird back.

Simple truth is I would never have found him with out it.

But yes, practice and experience (before it is on a lost bird) is always time well spent.

Never nice when a bird is AWOL, always leaves me feeling anxious until A.) I can see it again but B) and most importantly when it is safely back on the fist.

First step to that though is always getting a bleep on your reciever to start with!!! :D

Indeed I believe you will get what you pay for but the best kit in the world in the hands of someone who doesn`t know how it works will usually be beaten by some one with `cheaper` kit but knows it intermately.

CanadaManada
06-12-2009, 12:20 PM
I had to use the 433 Marshall in anger today. 4 crows came in on one of my lanners and chased her off, downwind. She wouldn't or couldn't turn and so I waited for a few minutes to see if she was coming back and then tuned on the radio.
I had about a 5/10 on the mid-range setting, so I knew I had a little ways to go. The signal was horizontally polarised, so I knew she was down on the floor, somewhere. The going was not easy. We'd had a massive rainstorm lastnight and the reclaimed farmland I was walking was almost completely flooded. I was sinking upto my ankles with every step and kept swinging the lure with the left hand while working the radio with the right. I managed to get the signal pinned to a small group of houses on the edge of the farmland. I walked around them to triangulate the signal but when I came around a corner to an opening, the receiver went nuts and the bird was already on the way to the lure. I talked to the landowners, who were all very happy to meet a foreigner carrying a falcon and they asked me to come and clean up their pigeon issues, anytime I like. Just good, old-fashioned Japanese farm people.

Funny thing is that the crows which had been after her seemed to have given up and gone home by the time I'd arrived. They gave me no help, whatsoever in locating her. In the past, crows have been the bane of my falconry here, with anywhere up to 120 of the things chasing after a gos I was flying. Somehow I think they gave this falcon more respect. If they only knew...:roll:

All in all, I was extremely happy to get the bird back and I was able to work the lure and the radio with no problems. I've been using the 433 Marshall as it is small (fits in the vest pocket), light, and has the clearest sound for my area, of all the other receivers I have here, including the Merlin Tracker Maxima 433.

If I can get my mews finished this week, I'll take all the receivers up one of the peaks and see what signals we get. That should be fun.

Justin

CanadaManada
30-12-2009, 12:47 AM
Over the past two weeks we've been rocked with snow here in northern Japan. I've had to order snowshoes just to be able to keep the birds in the air. My mountaineering expedition has been put temporarily on hold until the snowshoes arrive but I promise I'll have the radios working from a high peak, very soon.
It has come to my attention that Saker Telemetry has their website back up and running. While I'd been wondering what kind of telemetry company gets by with no working website, I am pleased to be able to now check out their site and see what they have posted.

Here are the good bits from www.sakertelemetry.com
"The world's most powerful falconry telemetry technology available exclusively to the world's most sophisticated falconers in the Gulf Region."
Buwahahaha. I ought to have gone to the toilet when I got up this morning because I almost had a serious problem when I read this. "Most powerful", huh? Based on what? Not on my testing here, that's for sure. I personally think the one I've got here isn't worth putting on a bird.
"World's most sophisticated falconers" eh? Suck up, much?
"Our transmitter and receiver systems will out perform any of our competitors. This is our guarantee." Wait until I send them my corroded transmitter and ask them for my money back.
Oh man, I am just getting going here.

The Saker Commander is the unit I have in testing now. Let's see what the claims are about the Saker Commander, shall we?

"• Standard Frequencies designed for the demands of Gulf Falconers Whatever that means"
• Saker Commander will work with any receiver in the frequency range – from Weinmann to Wildlife Materials to Marshall, etc. "Which transmitter will NOT work with a receiver if both are matched in frequency range? This is marketing speak for saying "yeah, our radio transmitters work with radio receivers" Guys, come on, you're blinding me with all the science, here. I can't get my head around all this technical jargon you're throwing out. ALL falconry telemetry transmitters are cross compatible with other manufacturers' receivers, if you have the correct frequencies.
• Gold aluminium housing: water proof, dust proof security NOPE! NOT WATERPROOF. NOT AT ALL!!!
• 20 day battery life
• Ultra Secure On / Off: Snap the battery into the transmitter to turn it on. Take the battery out of the transmitter to turn it off Translation: NO MAGNETIC ON/OFF Hillarious "ultra-secure on/off" = no mag switch - just tell it like it is - there's no shame in no mag switch, but don't try to spruce it up.
• 216, 217 and 233 MHz What? No 433???
• Antenna Length 8.5 inches
• Tail Mount You mean the clip that fell off mine? Not very secure, from my testing.
• 2-year warranty Good, because I'm gonna be needing that.
The .pdf catalog says of this transmitter "Gold plating boosts the signal by 100%" Now I'm just gonna go right ahead and call bull@#$% on this claim. If gold boosts the signal by 100%, wouldn't all the manufacturers be plating and more logically, wouldn't Saker's other, more expensive transmitter be gold plated? Just more claims that look good on paper.

They're selling a version of the Tracker Maxima Complete, as well, rebadged as the SAKER ULTIMA. Tell me, how many telemetry companies out there today don't make their own receivers, but rather use another manufacturer's receivers, rebadged? I thought this type of thing was in the past. Hmmmmmm...
"There are no receivers on the market today that can outperform the Saker Ultima." Reheheheally? I've got four receivers here, in this room, that have been consistently outperforming my "Tracker/Merlin/Maxima Complete/Ultima - confused yet?" receivers from day one - 3 Marshalls and a Comspec. But I guess Saker has a "speciallly upgraded version" of the Merlin Ultima, much as Merlin claims to have a specially upgraded version of the Tracker Maxima Complete. THEY'RE ALL TRACKER MAXIMA COMPLETES! Now, what's a Comspec you ask? Well, Saker markets them as well, but again under a different name - the SAKER RS-400.
"The Saker MS-400 is an entry level receiver designed to work with any transmitter in the 216-220 Mhz range. " Entry-level in price only.The Comspec (original equipment manufacturer) version of this receiver I have here has outperformed my Tracker Maxima Complete (which is the same as the Merlin Ultima in every way aside form the paintjob and price - the Tracker sells for cheaper) in 216. But the looks aren't as slick as the Tracker/Merlin, so I guess they can't charge more money for it.

In the end, their pricelist does not have prices!!!
THE PRICELIST DOESN'T LIST PRICES!!!!! That's a pretty serious contradiction in terms, if you ask me.
I supposed they adjust prices according to who gets in contact with them.

I am not impressed. Maybe I ought to melt my Saker transmitter down and see if the gold is worth anything - if it is even really gold.... Hold on now, I think I may be onto something here. Does anyone know a way for me to test if it really is gold? What a kick in the pants that'd turn out to be!


Justin

Ross Ricks
30-12-2009, 02:08 AM
wat a post im am literally pmsfl
im looking forward to ur next test
atb ross:yawinkle:

AdamVR
14-01-2010, 09:17 PM
Really interesting. I'm about to buy my first telemetry set, think I'm going to settle on a Field Marshall FM100 for the receiving bit and a Marshall Micro transmitter as an entrylevel choice, so I can fly kestrels to lanners to black spars. 8-)

dgp
14-01-2010, 10:52 PM
blimey
sure have pulled that companies pants down!
good thread /interesting ,well done :supz:

CanadaManada
09-02-2010, 06:13 AM
It's been quiet on here lately and so I thought I'd do my part by ramping up my testing again.
This week I went out and bought a Luksander MN40 216Mhz, so I could see what all the hooplah is about. I have lots of guys telling me it's good gear, but on 1st impression out of the box, it's the most cumbersome and ugly setup I've ever seen.
I'll post pics when I get back home tonight.

Justin

CanadaManada
10-02-2010, 11:24 AM
Sorry no pics yet. Took one of the falcons out today and showed her the new kite. The kite flew very well - so did the falcon, about 3 miles in a straight line, to be exact...
I found her the next town over, with a tiercel goshawk in a Mexican standoff, right on the side of the road. He knew a good thing when he saw it. The little 433 Marshall hasn't let me down yet on 3 trackdowns in built-up areas.
I think I will switch over to 216 tomorrow, that will allow me to put more of the receivers into direct competition, including that Luksander.

Justin

CanadaManada
12-02-2010, 02:05 PM
I switched my birds over to 216 today.
I've been really happy with the performamce of the 433/434 Marshall set but I wanted to give the 216 equipment more of a trial by fire testing.
I've been flying a female lanner at a silly high weight. One mistake from me and she's gone to do things herself.
The radios are gonna have some workout.

Here's the Luksander. I'll run it for a week, then sell it cheap.
I don't care how sensitive it is or isn't, it's just too damn big.

Justin

FalconFred
14-02-2010, 02:38 AM
I switched my birds over to 216 today.
I've been really happy with the performamce of the 433/434 Marshall set but I wanted to give the 216 equipment more of a trial by fire testing.
I've been flying a female lanner at a silly high weight. One mistake from me and she's gone to do things herself.
The radios are gonna have some workout.

Here's the Luksander. I'll run it for a week, then sell it cheap.
I don't care how sensitive it is or isn't, it's just too damn big.

Justin
Good on you Justin, I look forward to your unbiased testing. You found 216mhz Marshall to be no good because of interference, was the roblem the same right across the bands 216-219mhz.. I found 218mhz to be far less interfeared with over here..

atb

G

CanadaManada
14-02-2010, 05:35 AM
Good on you Justin, I look forward to your unbiased testing. You found 216mhz Marshall to be no good because of interference, was the roblem the same right across the bands 216-219mhz.. I found 218mhz to be far less interfeared with over here..

atb

G

Fred,
Thanks for commenting.
I''m using the 216 transmitters and receivers now, and experiencing no interference, whatsoever. Same place, same high-tension wires, and now it all works! Somebody told me it may have been interference from the traffic light contol transmitters, and not the wires.
I really don't know but have just returned form flying with 216 and not a bit of interference to be heard - crystal clear across the channels.
You are right though, that 217, 218 can often be better for when we have trouble at 216.


Justin

Aman
14-02-2010, 07:53 AM
How is the L.L doing?

Three of us over hear have been Tracking an AWOL Passage Peregrine for the Last three days, she has now flown nearly 200km South of where she left, the Receivers that are being used are the old Stealth G2, a Custom Electronics "Blue Box" and the exact one you are testing now. The Blue Box with a marshal Antennae and the Stealth have performed faultlessly as has the L.L, yet the L.L signal is very faint, we are starting to worry if their may not maybe be something wrong with speaker inside it. The bird is carrying an RT Plus.(all on 216)

My father has just ordered the new field marshal 800 with an RT Standard, it is said to twice the Power of a Powermax, i have a Powermax and am going to put them head to head. I would also like to get a Field marshall 433 500 set with the RT Turbo as it is said to be the most powerfull tranny they have ever developed, all this will be interesting to see.

I have always used the most powerfull Transmitters available no matter what bird i am flying, i used the powermax on my B Spar last season and it was a pleasure. After watching this peregrine fly out of telemetry range now twice over two consecutive days i hope marshall will continue to make their equipment more and more powerfull :supz:

Pavel Yakimov
16-02-2010, 08:45 PM
Here's something I bet none of you have seen before: TRANSMITTER SOUP!
I'll let it stew overnight and see how it tastes, in the morning. All transmitters were operating perfectly at the moment of immersion.

Justin

:) Soup!!! I will have a hard attack!!! You are one crazy person, mate!!! Grate post! Grate!!! Keep on going, bro!

Pavel Yakimov
16-02-2010, 08:58 PM
Tracking in built areas can be very tricky, especially with skyscrapers having large windows. I spent two days once guarding a big building only to eventually find out my bird is 2 km in the opposite direction. The way to overcome bounce in a situation like this is to get on top of the highest building you can found and get a signal from there.

Little Joe, Oh, man...! Being their..! Done that...! Flying my female 3/4 GXS on 1440 gr. (after this the weight reduction was serious) 2 years ago I found how many high buildings we have in our capital city of Sofia :)

Man, it was so strange for all those people staring at me...! :) And I was at the most highest buildings, swinging the lure with one hand, holding the telemetry with the other, screaming, whistling...! And all those people bellow...! :) They thought that I am some crazy desperate guy who wants to jump :) Man, it was fun!!!

So, I know how difficult it is...!

Grate thread, Justin!
Well done, mate! Well done!

Pavel Yakimov
16-02-2010, 09:00 PM
Finally, Justin, doesn't matter which company will complain! You do this for all of us there. This test of yours would help to those who still wonder what is best for them.

Once again - well done!

Man, I like this thread!

CanadaManada
17-02-2010, 01:34 PM
Finally, Justin, doesn't matter which company will complain! You do this for all of us there. This test of yours would help to those who still wonder what is best for them.

Once again - well done!

Man, I like this thread!

Thanks, Pavel. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
The Luksander is not doing very well alongside the other units I have here. I meant to take video today but got caught up in a nice bit of weather and flying. I want to put the Luksander alongside the Comspec and see which reads better. My money is on the Comspec.

Justin

Pavel Yakimov
17-02-2010, 09:16 PM
L&L is a good unite...!

And I am not familiar at all with the Comspec.

Whatever you do, it will change the idea for most of the Telemetry systems on the market and will change our view how to spend our money better on telemetry products...! :) ...:) So,...KEEP ON GOING!!!

P.S. Now is the time for some Ladies and Gentleman of those kind manufacturers to send you PM with request "don't do or say this, please and you will find in your bank account the amount of $...." and a lot of kisses from our best looking girls in the company", for example!!! :) ...What you going to do, Justin? Temptation...!!! :) Keep up the good job, bro!

CanadaManada
18-02-2010, 10:21 AM
L&L is a good unite...!

And I am not familiar at all with the Comspec.

Whatever you do, it will change the idea for most of the Telemetry systems on the market and will change our view how to spend our money better on telemetry products...! :) ...:) So,...KEEP ON GOING!!!

P.S. Now is the time for some Ladies and Gentleman of those kind manufacturers to send you PM with request "don't do or say this, please and you will find in your bank account the amount of $...." and a lot of kisses from our best looking girls in the company", for example!!! :) ...What you going to do, Justin? Temptation...!!! :) Keep up the good job, bro!


No, Pavel, unfortunately, no bribes by PM.
There's not much they could give me, as I've already bought almost everything that's available. I'm just telling the truth and trying to find out what works the best in my hands.
Nobody else is going to do this test, and right now I've got the time.
I've gotta tell you, I don't like the Luksander. Video tomorrow of the two, side by side - a 216Mhz showdown between the 2 ugliest units on the street.

Justin

Pavel Yakimov
18-02-2010, 05:46 PM
the 2 ugliest units on the street

:) Grate...! :)

But if put the jokes aside, it is really useful what you do. I must admit too, that there is no one who could do these tests just to prove this or that!
Very supportive and useful tread!

CanadaManada
02-03-2010, 01:34 AM
Recently, I've been asked about scanners, and their use as falconry receivers.
Keep in mind that I live in Japan, and can get just about any scanner, just by walking around the corner. I don't use them, and haven't for 3 years. I explained my feelings on another thread about using scanners for falconery to a lady who was looking for something to use in an eagle tracking program.
Plenty of guys were offering up their cheap scanners and Jim Chick antennae.
She had been considering a SIKA Biotrack, which is one of the best out there, but the price was out of her range.
I told her this:

I'm of the opinion that scanners just don't cut it for top-level telemetry.
I've probably tested more telemetry in the past 3 years than anyone on here, and that includes the manufacturers.

People ask me "What's wrong with scanners?" Well, I like to think that scanners are much like wide-angle binoculars. Sure binoculars are great for looking at some birds, or spying on your neighbours, but lets say you want to look at the eartag on that deer across the valley. Well, bonoculars aren't going to do it for you. You'd need a spotting scope, or something like a riflescope.
Telemetry is much the same. I've used wide-band scanners - one of the best infact, the ALINCO DJ-X10, and found it lacking in noise and unwanted signal rejection. I need something that zeroes in on exactly what I want and blocks everything else.

You need something on 173? Well I reccomend the Marshall FM series. You should PM (private message) Marshalldirect on here and tell him what you're looking for. Maybe because it's related to a study you can get a deal from him, though I've no idea. Never hurts to ask, right?

Barring Marshall, there are many more telemetry manufacturers out there, and I will state unequivocally that 3 or 4 of the better of them beat the best scanners I've seen and used.

Stay well away from scanners, if you want to be serious about telemetry.
Don't believe my binocular analogy? Just ask yourself why the SIKA only convers such a narrow band, It's not as though they couldn't make a wideband receiver...
Real telemetry never comes with the words "wideband" attached.

Good luck and I hope this helps you.
Justin

I ought to add to this that the ALINCO scanner I bought, cost over $1000USD and I've never owned a falconry receiver of any brand which I didn't think was better.

Scanners are at the bottom of a very different pile, for me.

Pavel Yakimov
02-03-2010, 10:50 AM
Hi, Justin!

Obviously you are one of the few people with knowledge about tracking birds of prey. Last tow years I see some very serious interest about GPS devices and their use in Falconry. Having fortunate enough to visit UAE and especially Falcon Hospital and etc. I saw the development of the GPS transmitters. From the size of a orange to the present size of USB devise. Although knowing that these are different devices from our standard telemetries, I would like to ask you to make, if you can, some comparison between the Telemetry sistems and the GPS one. I know that the GPS is more precise, more accurate. But how it works? How can I use it? Can I use one single device for tracking or it takes something more and etc.?
I will be very happy if you, or anybody with knowledge on the subject share with us something about this issue.

Thank you!

CanadaManada
02-03-2010, 11:06 AM
Hi, Justin!

Obviously you are one of the few people with knowledge about tracking birds of prey. Last tow years I see some very serious interest about GPS devices and their use in Falconry. Having fortunate enough to visit UAE and especially Falcon Hospital and etc. I saw the development of the GPS transmitters. From the size of a orange to the present size of USB devise. Although knowing that these are different devices from our standard telemetries, I would like to ask you to make, if you can, some comparison between the Telemetry sistems and the GPS one. I know that the GPS is more precise, more accurate. But how it works? How can I use it? Can I use one single device for tracking or it takes something more and etc.?
I will be very happy if you, or anybody with knowledge on the subject share with us something about this issue.

Thank you!

Pavel,
I'm not the guy to ask about GPS. Not yet, at least.
I hope to be testing one unit in the coming months.

From what I've seen of what's available right now, I'll stick with high-powered conventional telemetry. GPS isn't much good to me with the size and range that Tinyloc is offering right now. This is not to say that another manufacturer isn't going to come out with something to blow my socks off - it's just to say that I'm not impressed with what's out there.

I'd much prefer something that had dual-functionality. For example if I could buy a transmitter, and it would work on both GPS and conventional systems. That would get me to part with some money, I tell you.

GPS will be the next big thing in telemetry, mark my words. It's already taken over hunting dog tracking.

Justin

Pavel Yakimov
02-03-2010, 11:15 AM
Yes, I heard about one USA company :) that is the expected one for it and I'm waiting impatiently to see this new product.

There was one guy from Portugal offering some small GPS device measuring the speed, height and something more of the flying bird. This will be something interesting too...!

CanadaManada
02-03-2010, 11:48 AM
Yes, I heard about one USA company :) that is the expected one for it and I'm waiting impatiently to see this new product.

There was one guy from Portugal offering some small GPS device measuring the speed, height and something more of the flying bird. This will be something interesting too...!

Pavel,
I'm of the impression that there are two U.S. companies who have something coming down the pipe. Time will tell.
A lot of companies say they have something, but these incredible claims never seem to manifest themselves into units in the field, in the hands of regular falconers (Tinyloc Avalon).
I've heard of the one in Portugal, and have seen pictures of the unit. It needs a SIM card and works on mobile phone protocol.

Justin

Pavel Yakimov
02-03-2010, 03:54 PM
I've heard of the one in Portugal, and have seen pictures of the unit. It needs a SIM card and works on mobile phone protocol.
Justin

This should be something interesting, I think!
Whatever device I intend to use, I prefer to track my bird/s with considerably reliable source and from serious distance. And may be in future the GPS technology will be very useful. Just open the Notebook and you could see where our bird is sitting :)

CanadaManada
18-03-2010, 01:36 PM
I ordered the new Luksander 1/3n and the Merlin mx 1/3n transmitters, both of which arrived today.
The test will be to check for frequenct drift between them, the Saker (if I can get it working) and an RT+. All are 3 volt, 1/3n battery-based transmitters so we have a great basis of comparison.
I've been told that with some transmitters, the frequency drifts, or changes as the battery voltage goes down. Completely unrelated to temperature-related drift (another issue entirely), this I feel is an important thing to check out.
I don't want to have to think that the transmitter on my bird, out at liberty, is changing frequency the longer it is out.
This will bring new meaning to fine-tuning for me.
I'll take a couple pics tomorrow, as it's late here in Japan right now.

Justin

CanadaManada
20-03-2010, 04:16 AM
So here they are.

Upon 1st inspection I of course find the fit and finish of the Marshall to be superior.
The Merlin is much the same as the mini I'd tested, only larger and I assume more powerful.
The Luksander casing seems to be completely made of plastic and has a hokey rubber band to hold the battery in place. It also seems to have a base-loaded antenna. I think this because it has a more bulge showing at the base of the antenna than an Bee Gees album cover. Base-loading antennas can be tricky business and I'll explain why once I have my thinking cap on.
I think the next logical development for Merlin and Luksander would be to make waterproof transmitters. Would you not worry if one of these was on your lost bird and it was hammering down rain outside? Peace of mind goes a long way. I know exactly what's going to happen to these transmitters once I get to a water test. Maybe if I tell enough of you about this stuff, it'll push product development and help all of us.

I haven't fired them up yet but I do have some spare time tonight along with a bottle of rum to lubricate the thought process.

Justin

Liamey
20-03-2010, 11:25 AM
Hey Justin,

I have been reading this thread with great interest. As many others have already stated you should be applauded for the time and money you poured into this endeavour. No doubt this has yielded much information for those wanting to trade in their existing telem and those about to purchase their first unit. A truly outstanding test - but hey I would not expect anything less from a Central guy ;) Great Job!

Would be interested to see if the various manufacturers come out with GPS, as you said this is quite big in the dog world which tends to be fraught with problems for Canadians as some GPS inits for these tracking devices are illegal - something to do with the bandwidth I believe.

Anyway thank you!

CanadaManada
20-03-2010, 01:43 PM
Hey Justin,

I have been reading this thread with great interest. As many others have already stated you should be applauded for the time and money you poured into this endeavour. No doubt this has yielded much information for those wanting to trade in their existing telem and those about to purchase their first unit. A truly outstanding test - but hey I would not expect anything less from a Central guy ;) Great Job!

Would be interested to see if the various manufacturers come out with GPS, as you said this is quite big in the dog world which tends to be fraught with problems for Canadians as some GPS inits for these tracking devices are illegal - something to do with the bandwidth I believe.

Anyway thank you!

Thanks Liam. Good to have you here.
Liam, the way I operate, I just go out and buy the radio. If the radio cops wanna come and tell me I can't use it, they are more than welcome but nothing short of a warrant gets them in the door. I know the radio spectrum here and what uses what, so I'm pretty secure with the frequencies I'm on.

GPS is where we all want to go, I think. Just don't tell Bill if you get one, because that dude can quote Canadian radio law chapter and verse! :lol:
He's all "in subsection G, paragraph 12...it says....blah blah blah...can't...blah..." He even called the CRTC about getting his telemetry and almost screwed the pooch for every falconer in Canada. Get him to tell you that story!
:partyman:
Justin

CanadaManada
29-03-2010, 02:16 AM
Ok, so to review, this test is to run the 3 transmitters through a full battery each and see if the frequencies drift, as the battery voltages drop. Many guys are familiar with the idea that the frequencies on our transmitters drift with temperature changes, but I've only ever heard a few people discuss frequency change relating to battery age.
I'll fire up all three transmitters today and note their individual frequencies after fine-tuning. The test will be done at room temperature, and I will check them the same time each day, so as to keep things controlled.
I'm hoping that I get some idea of which direction frequencies drift with voltage loss. This will help guys tracking birds that have been out for a few days.

Justin

PhilZack01
29-03-2010, 07:19 AM
Recently, I've been asked about scanners, and their use as falconry receivers.
Keep in mind that I live in Japan, and can get just about any scanner, just by walking around the corner. I don't use them, and haven't for 3 years. I explained my feelings on another thread about using scanners for falconery to a lady who was looking for something to use in an eagle tracking program.
Plenty of guys were offering up their cheap scanners and Jim Chick antennae.
She had been considering a SIKA Biotrack, which is one of the best out there, but the price was out of her range.
I told her this:



I ought to add to this that the ALINCO scanner I bought, cost over $1000USD and I've never owned a falconry receiver of any brand which I didn't think was better.

Scanners are at the bottom of a very different pile, for me.

although this is a good read and fairplay to you for doing it. These cheap scanners you talk about with a jim chick yagi, are supplied by jim chick and you have a choice scanner or his orginal box! the vr 500 is a good scanner and here has competed against other systems with SAME results as leading suppliers of telemetry , scanner pinpoint is hard work and thats it! l feel your statement is slanting jim chick,s pruduct. This falconer has done more for falconry than most , and will carry on, jim service is second to none , l have just sold one of his system , used for the past 20yrs with out FAULT!!!(reciever) that is. atb phil

CanadaManada
29-03-2010, 12:35 PM
although this is a good read and fairplay to you for doing it. These cheap scanners you talk about with a jim chick yagi, are supplied by jim chick and you have a choice scanner or his orginal box! the vr 500 is a good scanner and here has competed against other systems with SAME results as leading suppliers of telemetry , scanner pinpoint is hard work and thats it! l feel your statement is slanting jim chick,s pruduct. This falconer has done more for falconry than most , and will carry on, jim service is second to none , l have just sold one of his system , used for the past 20yrs with out FAULT!!!(reciever) that is. atb phil


Jim Chick, to me, is just another brandname, and I'll hold nothing back on my thread.
Tell Jim about this and have him send me one of his kits, if he thinks it's all that. I'd be glad to put it in the test. The VR500 is made here in Japan, and I'm familiar with it. I'm not impressed. The ALINCO, X10 in my opinion was a far better unit, and I can lay my hands on another one in hours to put the VR500 to bed.
I didn't start this thread to make friends.

Justin

Dave G
29-03-2010, 01:00 PM
Well from what ive read its a no nonsense telemetry test no favours no bar holds ?? they are tested and opinions given on all sets and trannys , its good to see someone going out their way to prove just how good a system is be it if it costs 100 or 700 keep it going fella ;) as i only see it as benifitting folk who want a good all round system :supz:

CanadaManada
29-03-2010, 01:39 PM
Well from what ive read its a no nonsense telemetry test no favours no bar holds ?? they are tested and opinions given on all sets and trannys , its good to see someone going out their way to prove just how good a system is be it if it costs 100 or 700 keep it going fella ;) as i only see it as benifitting folk who want a good all round system :supz:

Thakns for the kind words.
This thread has had almost 5000 views until now and I know a lot of people are learning about telemetry, right along with me.
Every little bit helps and like I said, if somebody wants a Jim Chick set in the test, by all means, have him send me one and I'll line it up against the rest.
One of the reasons I did not include a Jim Chick set is because to me the brand is a minor telemetry manufacturer, seeing as it is generally marketed only in the UK. I'm a long way from the UK, as are many of the readers of this thread. I think it best for me to stick to the major manufacturers, otherwise I'd be testing obscure brands from Albania, that nobody would be able to buy, even if they'd wanted to.

Justin

CanadaManada
05-04-2010, 03:48 AM
Sorry to all for the late start with the the current transmitter test. I finally got going this morning and already I have some interesting findings.
The Marshall and Merlin both tuned right in strong on their specified frequencies, straight from startup. This should be a no=brainer, right? I mean if you order a 216.087 transmitter, you should be able to set your receiver to that, turn both on and get a signal to start with right? Yeah, right! Well, at least that was true for the Marshall and Merlin transmitters.
However, when I fired up the Luksander LF-4 ST, (the nomenclature on these things!) with the transmitter 10cm from the base of the antenna and the receiver set to NEAR I almost didn't have a signal!!!
What I had to do was go to the next channel up, and fine tune it over there. Now I'm a straightforward guy, and I like for things to do as the label says, and in my mind, a transmitter that is labelled as 216.xxx should work on that frequency, or very close to it. This Luksander was .0014 off the mark, at the moment I turned it on, at room temperature! To say I am not impressed would be an understatement.
What's more the Marshall and Merlin both showed strong signal, but the Luksander had less than half the output of the other two. Keep in mind this is sold as a high output transmitter with a rated range of 30-35 miles. From what I've seen today, I don't believe that for one second.
The Marshall and Merlin both have the frequency printed on the side of the transmitters but the Luksander doesn't - it has some silly serial number pen-engraved onto the battery contact. Thanks for that, Luksander, as that surely won't confuse anyone who buys this transmitter second hand, down the road!!!:roll::roll::roll: Hey Luksander, here's a hint for product fabrication, and I'll yell in plain English so you can hear me, PRINT THE FREQUENCY ON YOUR TRANSMITTERS WHEN YOU MAKE THEM!!!
So, straight away I'm gonna label this Luksander LF-4 ST:roll: as not even worthy of purchase. I don't think I even came down on the Saker transmitter this harshly. I'm going to continue running it for the test, but I will never, EVER put it on a bird. There are a lot better transmitters out there, guys, including the other two in this test. This Luksander is just about the worst I've seen.

Justin

PS: I'll update the frequency drift regularly, and tell you how the transmitters behave throughout their battery cycles.

Kev1299
05-04-2010, 09:38 AM
.0014 MHz away and you had to change channel? What receiver were you using as normally each channel will have a 10kHz band to fine tune and .001 is only 1 tenth of this? That sort of frequency difference should hardly be noticeable close up, so to not receive a signal at all, I would presume something is faulty.

Malcolm Edgar
05-04-2010, 10:55 AM
Sorry to all for the late start with the the current transmitter test. I finally got going this morning and already I have some interesting findings.
The Marshall and Merlin both tuned right in strong on their specified frequencies, straight from startup. This should be a no=brainer, right? I mean if you order a 216.087 transmitter, you should be able to set your receiver to that, turn both on and get a signal to start with right? Yeah, right! Well, at least that was true for the Marshall and Merlin transmitters.
However, when I fired up the Luksander LF-4 ST, (the nomenclature on these things!) with the transmitter 10cm from the base of the antenna and the receiver set to NEAR I almost didn't have a signal!!!
What I had to do was go to the next channel up, and fine tune it over there. Now I'm a straightforward guy, and I like for things to do as the label says, and in my mind, a transmitter that is labelled as 216.xxx should work on that frequency, or very close to it. This Luksander was .0014 off the mark, at the moment I turned it on, at room temperature! To say I am not impressed would be an understatement.
What's more the Marshall and Merlin both showed strong signal, but the Luksander had less than half the output of the other two. Keep in mind this is sold as a high output transmitter with a rated range of 30-35 miles. From what I've seen today, I don't believe that for one second.
The Marshall and Merlin both have the frequency printed on the side of the transmitters but the Luksander doesn't - it has some silly serial number pen-engraved onto the battery contact. Thanks for that, Luksander, as that surely won't confuse anyone who buys this transmitter second hand, down the road!!!:roll::roll::roll: Hey Luksander, here's a hint for product fabrication, and I'll yell in plain English so you can hear me, PRINT THE FREQUENCY ON YOUR TRANSMITTERS WHEN YOU MAKE THEM!!!
So, straight away I'm gonna label this Luksander LF-4 ST:roll: as not even worthy of purchase. I don't think I even came down on the Saker transmitter this harshly. I'm going to continue running it for the test, but I will never, EVER put it on a bird. There are a lot better transmitters out there, guys, including the other two in this test. This Luksander is just about the worst I've seen.

Justin

PS: I'll update the frequency drift regularly, and tell you how the transmitters behave throughout their battery cycles.

Thats what I like about your posts Justin - you tell it as you see it plain and simple.
Keep on 'doin' what you're 'doin'.
M
ps don't expect any christmas cards from the Luksander folks this year:lol

CanadaManada
05-04-2010, 12:22 PM
.0014 MHz away and you had to change channel? What receiver were you using as normally each channel will have a 10kHz band to fine tune and .001 is only 1 tenth of this? That sort of frequency difference should hardly be noticeable close up, so to not receive a signal at all, I would presume something is faulty.

I am using a Marshall FM4000AG. The filtering on it is so good that there is very little bleed outside the actual TX frequency - moreso with a low-output transmitter like the one I am discussing.
I had to punch the small channel button, then use the fine tune. I had a tiny signal on the stated freq, but it got stronger the further right I turned the fine tuning knob, till I reached the end. I then went up a step, and started from the bottom of the fine-tune range till I got the thing dialed in.
I do this testing with the receiver set to close-mode.
Nothing at all faulty. Every other transmitter works as stated, on the frequency stated, and I've tracked my own birds down with this receiver.
If anything is faulty it is this Luksander TX, but I doubt it because the thing is transmitting.

Justin

Thats what I like about your posts Justin - you tell it as you see it plain and simple.
Keep on 'doin' what you're 'doin'.
M
ps don't expect any christmas cards from the Luksander folks this year:lol

Thanks Malcolm.
I don't get many Xmas cards, anyway!

Justin

Kev1299
05-04-2010, 01:18 PM
I am using a Marshall FM4000AG. The filtering on it is so good that there is very little bleed outside the actual TX frequency - moreso with a low-output transmitter like the one I am discussing.
I had to punch the small channel button, then use the fine tune. I had a tiny signal on the stated freq, but it got stronger the further right I turned the fine tuning knob, till I reached the end. I then went up a step, and started from the bottom of the fine-tune range till I got the thing dialed in.
I do this testing with the receiver set to close-mode.
Nothing at all faulty. Every other transmitter works as stated, on the frequency stated, and I've tracked my own birds down with this receiver.
If anything is faulty it is this Luksander TX, but I doubt it because the thing is transmitting.Justin
So are you are saying that Marshall transmitters do not vary in frequency more than 500Hz (0.005MHz) either side of its designated frequency, therefore the fine tuning knob only needs to allow 1kHz (.001MHz) adjustment? And the receiver's filtering is so great that it will hardly detect any frequency outside the narrow band it's tuned to?

As there is such a narrow band of detection, if frequency drift occurred outside this 1kHz band while your bird was out, wouldn't this make the chances of getting the exact tuning good enough to detect a signal
very small? This would surely make the Marshall receiver practically useless for any other makers transmitter.
Also have you contacted Luksander to ask whether they think it may be faulty before rubbishing it? as I'm sure you would have given Marshall's the courtesy of doing so.

CanadaManada
06-04-2010, 03:24 AM
So are you are saying that Marshall transmitters do not vary in frequency more than 500Hz (0.005MHz) either side of its designated frequency, therefore the fine tuning knob only needs to allow 1kHz (.001MHz) adjustment? And the receiver's filtering is so great that it will hardly detect any frequency outside the narrow band it's tuned to?

As there is such a narrow band of detection, if frequency drift occurred outside this 1kHz band while your bird was out, wouldn't this make the chances of getting the exact tuning good enough to detect a signal
very small? This would surely make the Marshall receiver practically useless for any other makers transmitter.
Also have you contacted Luksander to ask whether they think it may be faulty before rubbishing it? as I'm sure you would have given Marshall's the courtesy of doing so.

Kev,
It's nice to be able to draw such conclusions by interpereting other people's writing, instead of trying it yourself, isn't it?
I'll be in contact with Luksander, when and if I please. If the Marshall or Merlin transmitters were underperforming straight out of the box, I'd have kept them in the test, and not given anyone "the courtesy"... "the courtesy"???
If a newbie buys one transmitter, and puts it on his bird with no basis of comparison, how's he supposed to know if it "might be" faulty? He wouldn't know and would put that on his bird and fly it, right? If that LL transmitter is faulty, and I'm not convinced it is, because it is transmitting on perfectly new batteries - I'm not a bad guy for trashing it. It would be that Luksander quality control is lacking.

As for your questions of frequency drift, well that's what I'm checking here, isn't it? Obviously the receiver I am using isn't useless, which you've insinuated, as I managed to find the signal on the Merlin without trouble, and even found the Luksander because I understand how to use a receiver. You obviously have no idea about the receiver I am using, so I will tell you. I'll comapre it to the comspec receiver I have on the desk here now. The comspec has push-button frequency input, just as the Marshall. The Comspec input goes like this for a 216.025Mhz transmitter - 6(the 6 in 216)02. You'd then have to tune to the last 5 using the fine tune button. Luksander receivers are like this too, as I can see from looking at the one I have here (yes, I've got almost all of them). By contrast the Marshall I am using would be tuned to the same transmitter by selecting the 216 band (out of 4 full bands) and then keying in 025, using the fine-tune button Older receivers. You can do the math as you seem to have a peculiarly keen interest in radios, but the difference in selectivity is incredible when you tune to the 3rd digit, then fine tune to the 4th.
So, to put this type of silliness to bed, I've just now turned on the Comspec receiver, to give an idea of how much more difficult it would be to find that Luksander transmitter on an older design box. I found it, but again had to go up to 608 and fine-tune to the bottom of the range to get the best signal. I found it, but the slightest touch on the fine-tune button changes the reception drastically - making for a touchy setup that can be easily knocked off fine-tune by any contact with the exposed fine-tune knob. (This is with both receivers set to NEAR mode, it should be noted. The Far modes have a much wider span). By contrast the fine-tuning range of the Marshall I am using in my frequency drift test will allow for 10x finer tuning, and the knob is tucked away, making it harder to knock off freq. This is why I am using this receiver in my frequency drift test - I need to be able to follow the drift. If this receiver was, as you have insinuated above, useless for other manufacturers' transmitters, it would be useless for my test. I think that 10x finer tuning would be a good thing for finding any transmitter, wouldn't you?
As far as I know, Marshall and Tinyloc transmitters have the most stable frequencies, over battery lifecycle, and this Merlin transmitter I have here is certainly looking good so far.

Justin

UglyBear
06-04-2010, 07:54 AM
Hi Canadaman

What systems have you found work best with which tags..
Be nice to see a rating of 1to 5 for which you consider works the best.

calvin

CanadaManada
06-04-2010, 08:23 AM
Hi Canadaman

What systems have you found work best with which tags..
Be nice to see a rating of 1to 5 for which you consider works the best.

calvin

Hey Calvin,
How's the animal control biz? I wold have liked to have seen the terrier pics that some people kicked up such a stink about.

I haven't found that there is any tag/receiver synergy, at all, if that's what you're getting at. That is to say that the transmitters do what they do and the receivers do what they do, independently... so to speak. Confused now? I am!
Let me put it this way - I feel, at this stage that receiver sensitivity and noise filtering are most important, followed by transmitter output. I think is that I can never have too much signal coming off a lost bird.
If a manufacturer wants to say that their receivers and transmitters have some special synergy, and work better as a set, purely on the basis of it being a set, then I'd be suspicious of that. If the receiver can tune to the tx freq, it's gonna have the potential to pick it up (extreme variables aside).

To answer the question that a few people have asked me, I am using the Field Marshall 4000AG (Arab Gulf model) receiver on my bird now with a mix of transmitters in 216, sometimes up to 3 at a time to see what does what.
The Comspec is a nice kit, but I don't like their antenna much for portability, thought I hear their new one is much better, and I absolutely abhor receivers like theirs and Luksander's with big paper speakers mounted on the top of the box.

I figure that once I get through the summer, training another bird or two, and trying out a few alternative uses for the transmitters, that then I'll do a rating. I'd envisioned about 1 year for testing, anyway. I'm still trying to get a Tinyloc system in the test, so we'll see how it goes.

Somebody told me today that in the U.S. coyote hunters have been using bird transmitters on dead small game to track coyotes back to their dens. There's something you may want to think about for your line of work, Calvin!

Justin

Kev1299
07-04-2010, 12:09 AM
I'll be in contact with Luksander, when and if I please. If the Marshall or Merlin transmitters were underperforming straight out of the box, I'd have kept them in the test, and not given anyone "the courtesy"... "the courtesy"???
So you're admitting your whole test could be based on a manufacturer's transmitter that could be faulty, that if working properly may have been the best?
Mmm, great test, can you name a single manufacturer that has never supplied a faulty transmitter?
If a newbie buys one transmitter, and puts it on his bird with no basis of comparison, how's he supposed to know if it "might be" faulty? He wouldn't know and would put that on his bird and fly it, right?
I would expect anyone using telemetry to familiarise themselves/practise with the set and also test it before using it each time. So yes he should know whether it was faulty or not, if he doesn't should he be using it?
If that LL transmitter is faulty, and I'm not convinced it is, because it is transmitting on perfectly new batteries - I'm not a bad guy for trashing it. It would be that Luksander quality control is lacking.
No I'm pretty certain that it isn't faulty, because .0014MHz is very close to what it should be and only just over 1 segment on the fine tuning dial away (on most sets). As transmitters can vary by up to 3 kHz with temperature, most sets allow +/-5kHz each side of the designated frequency to cover this.
So if using new Marshall transmitters with other makes, or older Marshall, receivers the fine tuning dial is redundant as you say the transmitter will never vary by more than +/-5ooHz.
Can other users confirm, that if they are using a Marshall transmitter with a different set that they never have to fine tune it because it is always smack on the designated frequency?
So, to put this type of silliness to bed
If you point out where the silliness is, I'll fluff it's pillow and tuck it in as well. Or this a case of "this my test, how dare anybody disagree with me" type tantrum?
I've just now turned on the Comspec receiver, to give an idea of how much more difficult it would be to find that Luksander transmitter on an older design box. I found it, but again had to go up to 608 and fine-tune to the bottom of the range to get the best signal. I found it, but the slightest touch on the fine-tune button changes the reception drastically - making for a touchy setup that can be easily knocked off fine-tune by any contact with the exposed fine-tune knob. (This is with both receivers set to NEAR mode, it should be noted. The Far modes have a much wider span). By contrast the fine-tuning range of the Marshall I am using in my frequency drift test will allow for 10x finer tuning, and the knob is tucked away, making it harder to knock off freq. This is why I am using this receiver in my frequency drift test - I need to be able to follow the drift. If this receiver was, as you have insinuated above, useless for other manufacturers' transmitters, it would be useless for my test. I think that 10x finer tuning would be a good thing for finding any transmitter, wouldn't you?Justin
Now on sets that I've had, a transmitter close up will easily bleed across the next channel and more, obviously this diminishes with distance. But if you can pick a bleep up over a fair range of kHz then you have a much better chance of finding a weak signal from a drifted frequency to then fine tune into. With a receiver with a very narrow receiving band (under 1kHz), you would need to be smack on your tuning before receiving anything, as other makes drift more than 1kHz this would make them harder to find with a Marshalls set, would it not?
Are you sure the fine tuning is in .0001MHz steps as I don't think that would give a perceptible difference at all?

CanadaManada
07-04-2010, 05:39 AM
So you're admitting your whole test could be based on a manufacturer's transmitter that could be faulty, that if working properly may have been the best? What I'm saying is that not only am I testing range, sensitivity, noise, selectivity, drift, and fit/finish, but also quality control.
Mmm, great test, can you name a single manufacturer that has never supplied a faulty transmitter?
I only know what is in the experience of myself and my friends.

I would expect anyone using telemetry to familiarise themselves/practise with the set and also test it before using it each time. So yes he should know whether it was faulty or not, if he doesn't should he be using it? How, exactly would one guy, purchasing his first telemetry set, living away from other falconers, know his transmitter was underperforming, having no basis of comparison? You're practically putting the onus of quality control on the consumer, something i find completely unacceptable.

No I'm pretty certain that it isn't faulty, because .0014MHz is very close to what it should be and only just over 1 segment on the fine tuning dial away (on most sets). If you read carefully, I too believe it is not faulty - just not very good.As transmitters can vary by up to 3 kHz with temperature, most sets allow +/-5kHz each side of the designated frequency to cover this.
So if using new Marshall transmitters with other makes, or older Marshall, receivers the fine tuning dial is redundant as you say the transmitter will never vary by more than +/-5ooHz. Hello, remember that the Merlin transmitter was dead on the money, as well??? "Marshall, Marshall, Marshall". I fell like I'm watching some wierd Brady Bunch rerun. You can tell us if you don't like Marshall. It's ok but fallacy of logic like your statement assumes that all receivers and the dials on them are perfectly calibrated. Dials are mounted by hand, and the decals applied by hand - see where I'm going with this?
Can other users confirm, that if they are using a Marshall transmitter with a different set that they never have to fine tune it because it is always smack on the designated frequency? Again, see my previous comment on the validity of your question. Would any answer be valid, or just raise the question of which of the two was actually "smack on".

If you point out where the silliness is, I'll fluff it's pillow and tuck it in as well. I think I'm picking it apart fairly well, thanks. Or this a case of "this my test, how dare anybody disagree with me" type tantrum? You can disagree with me all you want, but the fact is that I'm doing the test on my own time and money and there are a lot of falconers benefitting from it. You haven't raised a single interesting point or asked a question that wasn't leading and making me question your affiliations.

Now on sets that I've had, a transmitter close up will easily bleed across the next channel and more, obviously this diminishes with distance. But if you can pick a bleep up over a fair range of kHz then you have a much better chance of finding a weak signal from a drifted frequency to then fine tune into. With a receiver with a very narrow receiving band (under 1kHz), you would need to be smack on your tuning before receiving anything, as other makes drift more than 1kHz this would make them harder to find with a Marshalls set, would it not? You're failing to take into consideration things such as transmitter output (more powerful ones bleed more on older or less sophisticated receivers) and the noise-eliminating benefit that comes with narrow band filtering. I can turn on a dog transmitter I have here, turn on my Luksander MN10 receiver and find that transmitter bleeding across 3 channels or more from a ways away. If I or another guy out in the field had a bird transmitter on an adjacent channel, I think I may have some trouble somewhere, so you can see why narrow filtering is paramount in a situation like this. I think most of us know what freq our transmitters are on, and I don't know of anyone out there, scanning through channels, looking for a transmitter, as you've illustrated. Before you think you can jump on that last statement, I'll add that had I been flying a bird with the Luksander TX in question (I never will), I'd have been smart enough to dial in the frequency to where I got best reception.
Are you sure the fine tuning is in .0001MHz steps as I don't think that would give a perceptible difference at all? You can see the picture I posted and Tinyloc, Marshall, and Tracker/Merlin think the 4th digit is important enough. These are all what can be considered "new generation" receivers. It only matters if your receiver is good enough to benefit from that level of fine tuning. The receivers of yesteryear, and some of the modern "big box" receivers don't have enough noise filtering to really see any advantage from a 4th digit in fine tuning.

And yeah, this is pretty much a "my test, my show" type thread.
Thanks for stopping by, though, and you're welcome to open your own thread.
Justin

Kev1299
07-04-2010, 10:11 PM
And yeah, this is pretty much a "my test, my show" type thread.
Thanks for stopping by, though, and you're welcome to open your own thread.Justin
Bad day at work today, that puts things into perspective and can't be bothered to answer. So, as for your quote above I won't bother your threads anymore.

Pavel Yakimov
07-04-2010, 11:08 PM
Kev1299, be nice, mate! Justin is doing one good thing that I love to observe! And I am not the only one who likes his tests. The guys is devoted, curious and for good or worst is putting his own money to make something very, very useful. I can not do it. even some of the fortunate enough guys here can not do it.
Yes, it does not have the status of "officially proven" test. And this is much better. Because what is going to happen if his unofficial test become widely official and recognized? The producers and manufacturers will lose a lot of money.
So, I think your opinion could be only constructive and if you insist on some position instead of attacking try neutral position. Do not want to offend you. Only my opinion.

Best regards!

...and Justin, please keep spending your money for those toys, bro! Since I can not do it, but love to. And thus my wife will sleep better and I will have more money to spend for more expensive birds, thanks to you. Thank you for saving my personal pocket and thank you for your test!

CanadaManada
13-04-2010, 03:08 AM
As the transmitters each go through their battery cycles, and voltage drops off, it looks like the Merlin and Luksander are dropping in frequency. I had a bit of trouble early on in the test as the room temperature had changed, but I quickly noticed the problem and got it under control.
I'll keep checking and once the transmitters start to die, I'll post results.

Justin

Robam
13-04-2010, 03:23 AM
Interesting read Justin, Keep it up mate.

Regards

Rob

CanadaManada
13-04-2010, 01:21 PM
Interesting read Justin, Keep it up mate.

Regards

Rob

Thanks Rob.
How's that old telem set working out for you?

Justin

Robam
14-04-2010, 12:04 AM
Thanks Rob.
How's that old telem set working out for you?

Justin

Hi Justin,

Superb mate, no probs with it at all !!

Regards

Rob

HaggisHawker
14-04-2010, 09:56 PM
Dear Justin,

This is a brilliantly objective thread, so thank you for your efforts. To allay the criticism about transmitter sample size, I use a tracker maxima as my pocket receiver - and a marshall digital receiver in case things get tricky. The tracker requires punching in and storing the exact frequency and no fine-tune control knob. Despite big variations in temperature and battery life across the season, I have found the 5 Marshall transmitters I use (2 pmax, 2 rt+ and a micro) to never vary from their tuned frequency. Moreover, the receiver frequencies are almost all spot on the quoted transmitter frequency.

Folk who are used to their own pair of tx and receiver can cope fine if they're familiar with drift and the arbitrary setting on their receiver, BUT if a bird gets lost and THEN you call for tracking help, it's really important to know what exact freq your bird is pushing out. I've experienced this on fieldmeets where lost hawks with non-Marshall tags have been very tricky to follow due to nonspecific tuning and / or frequency change. If they really go AWOL you need as many cars as possible chasing the signal, and this is difficult and slow if you don't know what the exact frequency is - on that day.

We did a test of the receivers too like you - albeit in one day and in less detail - and the Marshall digital receiver came through by far the most sensitive as distance increased. It is much more sensitive than its field Marshall predecessor - and that performed better than the 2 mn10's we tested.

Thanks for your research and keep testing! Matt

CanadaManada
14-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Dear Justin,

This is a brilliantly objective thread, so thank you for your efforts. To allay the criticism about transmitter sample size, I use a tracker maxima as my pocket receiver - and a marshall digital receiver in case things get tricky. The tracker requires punching in and storing the exact frequency and no fine-tune control knob. Despite big variations in temperature and battery life across the season, I have found the 5 Marshall transmitters I use (2 pmax, 2 rt+ and a micro) to never vary from their tuned frequency. Moreover, the receiver frequencies are almost all spot on the quoted transmitter frequency.

Folk who are used to their own pair of tx and receiver can cope fine if they're familiar with drift and the arbitrary setting on their receiver, BUT if a bird gets lost and THEN you call for tracking help, it's really important to know what exact freq your bird is pushing out. I've experienced this on fieldmeets where lost hawks with non-Marshall tags have been very tricky to follow due to nonspecific tuning and / or frequency change. If they really go AWOL you need as many cars as possible chasing the signal, and this is difficult and slow if you don't know what the exact frequency is - on that day.

We did a test of the receivers too like you - albeit in one day and in less detail - and the Marshall digital receiver came through by far the most sensitive as distance increased. It is much more sensitive than its field Marshall predecessor - and that performed better than the 2 mn10's we tested.

Thanks for your research and keep testing! Matt

Thanks for your input, Matt. It's nice to know that I'm not the only person concerned with frequency drift.

Justin

SilverLeapers
15-04-2010, 12:08 PM
...... and almost screwed the pooch for every falconer in Canada. Get him to tell you that story!
:partyman:
Justin

Shhhhh....! :oops: Sometimes ignorance is bliss!

Great Job Justin!

Now why does it not surprise me that YOU of the thousands of people on here would actually dig out your Newfie hiking boots and do something like this?? BTW I wonder who's wallet did ya find laying in the dust, stuffed with cash, and lacking any ID?? You playing 649 again? COME HOME SOON! :heart::yawinkle:

SilverLeapers
15-04-2010, 12:13 PM
BTW...what about sticking those beepers into a Japanese box resembling home - a fridge (-8-10?C) or deep freeze (-15-20C)....my power maxes didn't last long with brand new batteries at -13C....or even -5C...:heart: Marshall though!

CanadaManada
16-04-2010, 05:29 AM
Well the Luksander is dead. Their website states "about 2 weeks of continuous operation". I got what, 11 days?
Anyway by the end, the Luksander was 3Khz down from startup frequency. The startup frequency, remember was already .0014Mhz off to begin with, so the potential margin of error here is enough to scare me off from ever putting it on a bird. The drift is enough that if a bird was tuned in dead on one day and then lost for a week, anyone tracking it might easily miss the signal and lose the bird permanently.
The Merlin 1/3MX is plugging along at -.5Khz from startup and is doing well. The Marshall RT+ is still steady at startup frequency. Neither of these 2 transmitters have started double beeping (low voltage warning) after 11 days of continuous operation - I think that is a good thing in itself.

Thanks to everyone who continues to follow this thread. Sorry there aren't more interesting pics, but how interesting are transmitters sitting on my kitchen table, right? I'll see if I can come up with something interesting to look at.
Justin
Justin

BTW...what about sticking those beepers into a Japanese box resembling home - a fridge (-8-10?C) or deep freeze (-15-20C)....my power maxes didn't last long with brand new batteries at -13C....or even -5C...:heart: Marshall though!

Bill,
I remeber when John and I were at your place, he said your batteries weren't very good. Remember now, his family was in the jewelry store business and he's been around small batteries all his life. The RT and Scout 433 transmitters I kept on my birds all winter were never turned off, and it gets bloody cold here, Bill. Never had battery life issues with those two. Now that said, I didn't use my Powermaxes very much as I have more faith in a big battery in the cold, if you catch my meaning. I do plan to use my Powermaxes this summer/fall, though.
I tell you what, I'll cram some transmitters in the deep freeze, once this test cycle is over, Bill. That'll be an interesting pic for everyone to see (what's inside Justin's freezer in Japan)!
And yeah, scratch and win lottery has been good to me! :lol:

Justin

SilverLeapers
16-04-2010, 06:13 PM
Well the Luksander is dead. Their website states "about 2 weeks of continuous operation". I got what, 11 days?
Anyway by the end, the Luksander was 3Khz down from startup frequency. The startup frequency, remember was already .0014Mhz off to begin with, so the potential margin of error here is enough to scare me off from ever putting it on a bird. The drift is enough that if a bird was tuned in dead on one day and then lost for a week, anyone tracking it might easily miss the signal and lose the bird permanently.
The Merlin 1/3MX is plugging along at -.5Khz from startup and is doing well. The Marshall RT+ is still steady at startup frequency. Neither of these 2 transmitters have started double beeping (low voltage warning) after 11 days of continuous operation - I think that is a good thing in itself.

Thanks to everyone who continues to follow this thread. Sorry there aren't more interesting pics, but how interesting are transmitters sitting on my kitchen table, right? I'll see if I can come up with something interesting to look at.
Justin
Justin



Bill,
I remeber when John and I were at your place, he said your batteries weren't very good. Remember now, his family was in the jewelry store business and he's been around small batteries all his life. The RT and Scout 433 transmitters I kept on my birds all winter were never turned off, and it gets bloody cold here, Bill. Never had battery life issues with those two. Now that said, I didn't use my Powermaxes very much as I have more faith in a big battery in the cold, if you catch my meaning. I do plan to use my Powermaxes this summer/fall, though.
I tell you what, I'll cram some transmitters in the deep freeze, once this test cycle is over, Bill. That'll be an interesting pic for everyone to see (what's inside Justin's freezer in Japan)!
And yeah, scratch and win lottery has been good to me! :lol:

Justin

Well that is kinda sad...and I missed that comment from John (Dooh!). It helped cost me a bird! The batteries were bought with the transmitters from Marshall (Renata brand made in Switzerland and distributed to over 100 countries) and came with the transmitters! They typically only lasted 2-4 outings during our winter (-1C to -10C). The day I lost the bird the battery was brand new and just put in that morning....10 hours later it was double beeping and by daylight it was dead while I stood 30 feet from the bird (it was -2C that night). Bad batch of batteries maybe? I know I store them properly (cool dry place) and the expiration date on the packaging is 06/2016.....
I knew from the graph supplied by Marshall for the powermax transmitters that they we not going to last long in winter.

Cheers;
Bill

Harris
16-04-2010, 11:50 PM
Justin, I see a whole new thread coming on.... Batteries. ;) Which ones are the best in different transmitters under the same test conditions?

UglyBear
16-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Hey Calvin,
How's the animal control biz? I wold have liked to have seen the terrier pics that some people kicked up such a stink about.

I haven't found that there is any tag/receiver synergy, at all, if that's what you're getting at. That is to say that the transmitters do what they do and the receivers do what they do, independently... so to speak. Confused now? I am!
Let me put it this way - I feel, at this stage that receiver sensitivity and noise filtering are most important, followed by transmitter output. I think is that I can never have too much signal coming off a lost bird.
If a manufacturer wants to say that their receivers and transmitters have some special synergy, and work better as a set, purely on the basis of it being a set, then I'd be suspicious of that. If the receiver can tune to the tx freq, it's gonna have the potential to pick it up (extreme variables aside).

To answer the question that a few people have asked me, I am using the Field Marshall 4000AG (Arab Gulf model) receiver on my bird now with a mix of transmitters in 216, sometimes up to 3 at a time to see what does what.
The Comspec is a nice kit, but I don't like their antenna much for portability, thought I hear their new one is much better, and I absolutely abhor receivers like theirs and Luksander's with big paper speakers mounted on the top of the box.

I figure that once I get through the summer, training another bird or two, and trying out a few alternative uses for the transmitters, that then I'll do a rating. I'd envisioned about 1 year for testing, anyway. I'm still trying to get a Tinyloc system in the test, so we'll see how it goes.

Somebody told me today that in the U.S. coyote hunters have been using bird transmitters on dead small game to track coyotes back to their dens. There's something you may want to think about for your line of work, Calvin!

Justin
Hi justin thanks for that

Finding fox earths on your ground is quite easy if you know what your looking for , a very good ide tho
Unfortunatly we have not got the vast open spacs that you guys have got out there..... but the terrier work is good fun if you ever over look us up and im sure i could find some thing ..

calvin

Tony350i
17-04-2010, 09:49 PM
Hello Justin,
I just like to say I am very please with my classic and scout, it came yesterday and I have had a good play with it today and I am very impressed, so small and light, very easy to use.

All the best

Tony

Great thread:cool:

CanadaManada
17-04-2010, 11:44 PM
Hello Justin,
I just like to say I am very please with my classic and scout, it came yesterday and I have had a good play with it today and I am very impressed, so small and light, very easy to use.

All the best

Tony

Great thread:cool:

Tony,
I'm glad to hear you're pleased. I've sold a bunch of those sets on here. For guys who want a simple set and aren't after the extreme ranges I seek, it sure makes sense.

Justin

CanadaManada
26-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Now THIS ought to raise some eyebrows!
I fired up these threee transmitters on April 5th, I believe.
Here we are on April 26th, and both the Marshall RT+ and Merlin 1/3MX transmitters are STILL RUNNING!!! I think this may be well over the manufacturers' ratings. I'll have to consult the manuals and see.

Justin

Harris
26-04-2010, 12:39 PM
Now THIS ought to raise some eyebrows!
I fired up these threee transmitters on April 5th, I believe.
Here we are on April 26th, and both the Marshall RT+ and Merlin 1/3MX transmitters are STILL RUNNING!!! I think this may be well over the manufacturers' ratings. I'll have to consult the manuals and see.

Justin

Justin has the Marshall started double beeping? Its one of the issues I've always had with them is that they run on a timer which triggers the double beep even though the battery can be well within limits, this can be reset obviously, but I have never understood why its a timer that triggers this. In the real world I want a transmitter to start to double beep when there is a certain voltage level reached, that way I know that I should have X amount of hours left in the battery. But Marshall transmitters I have found can start to double beep withing a very short time. Marshall tell you to reset it by shorting out the terminals. Well thats ok if you have the transmitter in hand, but useless if the bird is lost.

CanadaManada
28-04-2010, 02:31 AM
Justin has the Marshall started double beeping? Its one of the issues I've always had with them is that they run on a timer which triggers the double beep even though the battery can be well within limits, this can be reset obviously, but I have never understood why its a timer that triggers this. In the real world I want a transmitter to start to double beep when there is a certain voltage level reached, that way I know that I should have X amount of hours left in the battery. But Marshall transmitters I have found can start to double beep withing a very short time. Marshall tell you to reset it by shorting out the terminals. Well thats ok if you have the transmitter in hand, but useless if the bird is lost.

23 days and both are still running!!! Well beyond both manufacturers' specs!

Simon, the RT+ is double-beeping. It's supposed to be, by now. According to the manual, the double beep means there is about 7 days left of running time (I guess under ideal conditions). Now the 1/3MX, on the other hand, is not programmed for double beeping - once it is through the battery cycle, it simply shuts off.

You mentioned the Marshall timer, Simon. I'm pretty sure the Micro is the one model that uses only a timer and that the others have both timer and voltage sensor. I suppose it's because the tiny CR1225 watch battery has unstable voltage at temperature extremes. One of the falconry supply websites, Western Sporting or Northwoods, was selling CR1220 batteries for use with the Micro in wintertime as the voltage output was more stable, though it cut range. I use the Panasonic CR1220 in my Micros because of this. These go for around $4USD apiece over here, but I like the peace of mind. I never try to save money on batteries, anymore, and I don't touch anything with less than a year left before expiry. I suppose if they put a voltage sensor in the Micro, the relatively weak battery would always be setting off the sensor and giving a double beep - though it would still be doing its job, but I digress. I've heard some guys like yourself talking about excessive double beeps but over hunders of running hours with now a total of 7 RT+s that I've used (my favourite transmitter) I've never seen a single problem, of any sort. I prefer a big battery and the stable voltage they provide. I'm an RT+ guy!
I've put new batteries in my RT+s, Scouts, and Powermaxes and have immediately gotten a double beep. What does that mean? It means I forgot to reset the timer by putting the battery in backwards for 2 or 3 seconds. Once that simple procedure was done, the transmitters performed flawlessly.
I can only speak from my own experiences but until right now, I've never had a Marshall transmitter that didn't perform flawlessly, and I've had quite a few of them. I do spend silly money on batteries, though.
Simon's suggestion of a battery test is interesting... I've only got access to Japanese batteries over here and the Renatas but it may be interesting to think about such a test in the future.

I wonder when this 1/3MX and RT+ are going to shut down... 23 days is pretty good from a certain perspective and both transmitters are performing better than expected in both endurance and frequency stability.

Justin

Hatchero
28-04-2010, 02:48 AM
23 days and both are still running!!! Well beyond both manufacturers' specs!

Simon, the RT+ is double-beeping. It's supposed to be, by now. According to the manual, the double beep means there is about 7 days left of running time (I guess under ideal conditions). Now the 1/3MX, on the other hand, is not double beeping - and it is supposedly set on a 250 hour timer. We are well past that, so I assume it's going to shut off anyday now without having issued any warning, whatsoever.

You mentioned the Marshall timer, Simon. I'm pretty sure the Micro is the one model that uses only a timer and that the others have both timer and voltage sensor. I suppose it's because the tiny CR1225 watch battery has unstable voltage at temperature extremes. One of the falconry supply websites, Western Sporting or Northwoods, was selling CR1220 batteries for use with the Micro in wintertime as the voltage output was more stable, though it cut range. I use the Panasonic CR1220 in my Micros because of this. These go for around $4USD apiece over here, but I like the peace of mind. I never try to save money on batteries, anymore, and I don't touch anything with less than a year left before expiry. I suppose if they put a voltage sensor in the Micro, the relatively weak battery would always be setting off the sensor and giving a double beep - though it would still be doing its job, but I digress. I've heard some guys like yourself talking about excessive double beeps but over hunders of running hours with now a total of 7 RT+s that I've used (my favourite transmitter) I've never seen a single problem, of any sort. I prefer a big battery and the stable voltage they provide. I'm an RT+ guy!
I've put new batteries in my RT+s, Scouts, and Powermaxes and have immediately gotten a double beep. What does that mean? It means I forgot to reset the timer by putting the battery in backwards for 2 or 3 seconds. Once that simple procedure was done, the transmitters performed flawlessly.
I can only speak from my own experiences but until right now, I've never had a Marshall transmitter that didn't perform flawlessly, and I've had quite a few of them. I do spend silly money on batteries, though.
Simon's suggestion of a battery test is interesting... I've only got access to Japanese batteries over here and the Renatas but it may be interesting to think about such a test in the future.

I wonder when this 1/3MX and RT+ are going to shut down... 23 days is pretty good from a certain perspective.

Justin

The MX does not double beep. In the interest of reducing the drain on the battery, the pulse duration is significantly reduced and the period(time between pulses) is significantly increased. you might do a distance test right now and see how that's workin.
jim

CanadaManada
28-04-2010, 03:03 AM
The MX does not double beep. In the interest of reducing the drain on the battery, the pulse duration is significantly reduced and the period(time between pulses) is significantly increased. you might do a distance test right now and see how that's workin.
jim

JIM! Glad you came!
I was just writing you a PM about this very thing, seeing as how I could only find my MiniMX manual and was wondering where I'd gotten the 250 hour timer quote. I'm going to try and edit that.
Thanks for clearing that up. Now we can see the Merlin method for conserving battery life on a transmitter that has been operational for an extended time. You don't feel, Jim, that a double-beep would be benificial? Obviously you have your own design philosophy, and we'd all love to hear it.

I ought to add, I'm not going outside! It's raining sideways in Sapporo with 13 M/sec wind. http://weather.yahoo.co.jp/weather/raincloud/hokkaido.html
Tell me what you think I'd find.
Justin

Hatchero
28-04-2010, 03:17 AM
JIM! Glad you came!
I was just writing you a PM about this very thing, seeing as how I could only find my MiniMX manual and was wondering where I'd gotten the 250 hour timer quote. I'm going to try and edit that.
Thanks for clearing that up. Now we can see the Merlin method for conserving battery life on a transmitter that has been operational for an extended time. You don't feel, Jim, that a double-beep would be benificial? Obviously you have your own design philosophy, and we'd all love to hear it.

I ought to add, I'm not going outside! It's raining sideways in Sapporo with 13 M/sec wind. http://weather.yahoo.co.jp/weather/raincloud/hokkaido.html
Tell me what you think I'd find.
Justin

well, i wont go into detail here but i can say that we have done a bunch of testing on these batteries and this is what seems to work best for getting the longest run time out of the battery. a key part of this is the output power of the transmitter when the battery is on its last legs. If your bird is lost this long it seems output is what you want at this point as well as extra life.
Jim

CanadaManada
28-04-2010, 03:57 AM
well, i wont go into detail here but i can say that we have done a bunch of testing on these batteries and this is what seems to work best for getting the longest run time out of the battery. a key part of this is the output power of the transmitter when the battery is on its last legs. If your bird is lost this long it seems output is what you want at this point as well as extra life.
Jim


Jim,
That sure makes sense to me. Preserving range over battery lifecycle is important when the bird has been out a while. I have a feeling Luksander dropped the ball on that one and I'm glad to see that both Merlin and Marshall have "go slow" modes programmed in which preserve range.
How long do you think my 1/3MX will run? Your manual said 18-20 days, if I remember correctly and the RT+ is rated around 15 days. 23 days is no joke and well over those specs.
I really appreciate you posting here.

Justin

CanadaManada
01-05-2010, 12:27 PM
26 days and the RT+ has stopped. The 1/3MX is still going.
The RT+ did not change in frequency over the battery cycle. The MX 1/3N has drifted. That's about as balanced a report as I can give.

Justin

VGParcels
05-05-2010, 05:31 AM
26 days and the RT+ has stopped. The 1/3MX is still going.
The RT+ did not change in frequency over the battery cycle. The MX 1/3N has drifted. That's about as balanced a report as I can give.

Justin
what about the recievers mate and what did you end up keeping or is this test ongoing.
Gary

CanadaManada
05-05-2010, 03:48 PM
what about the recievers mate and what did you end up keeping or is this test ongoing.
Gary

This is an ongoing test. This particular part of the test is to check frequency drift in 1/3N battery-type transmitters. There are many more tests to come.

Justin

CanadaManada
17-05-2010, 01:28 AM
I've just posted this over on another thread, but thought it had some relevance here:

[I]
I've found that the 433 transmitter absolutely must be backpack or tailmounted. If the bird is on the ground, and the transmitter is legmounted, the signal literally grounds out and range is significantly reduced. This is for any of the manufacturers' 433s.
That said, I used the 433 on my longwings with full confidence over the winter, only switching to 216 in the spring because my wife was going on about me not putting it to use.

My short rundown is this:
173 - best for hilly, very rainy, snowy, and forested conditions.
433 - best for wide open spaces and fair weather.
216 - the best of both worlds, but a tradeoff between each.

Under optimal conditions for each, the range, I have found to be about equal. I always carry a set of earbud earphones and if I can't hear a signal, I plug them in. The difference earbuds make is astounding.

I've no issues with spending money on telemetry. If it gets my bird back just once, it's paid for itself a few times over.
Justin

26 days and the RT+ has stopped. The 1/3MX is still going.
The RT+ did not change in frequency over the battery cycle. The MX 1/3N has drifted. That's about as balanced a report as I can give.

Justin

The Merlin made it to 30 days and drifted off signal by about 2.5Khz. I really need to get a frequency counter to do this right, and I plan to do that this summer.

Now I ought to mention that the signals the RT+ and MX 1/3 were pumping out at the ends of the cycles, were very very weak. I'd consider these signals to be all but useless in a real world situation. The RT+ pumped out more signal at the beginning, and the MX 1/3 had better signal toward the end. Again, like most things, there is a tradeoff here and one will suit some applications better than the other. You'll notice I haven't mentioned the Luksander. Well that one died so quickly as to not even be worthy of consideration.
I believe that the RT+ and MX1/3 transmitters will give you about 2 weeks to have a reasonable chance of tracking down your bird.

One thing we can consider is that both of these manufacturers will slow down or shorten the pulse on your transmitters if you make a special request at ordering (if you order direct) and this will give you more time with a workable signal. For example, you could request a "40 day hack transmitter" and they can adjust things to fit that request. Don't feel limited by what the spec sheets say and never be afraid to ask the manufacturers because I can tell you from personal experience that they are all a good bunch of guys.

Justin

CanadaManada
21-06-2010, 03:45 AM
I haven't been doing much testing lately so I thought I'd post a couple of pics. The 1st are some receiver/transmitter sets I have for sale. The second pic is of some laser etching that I got Marshall to do for me on the lid of a Scout transmitter. I think it cost $15USD and they can do Micro/Scout/Powermax lids. Pretty sweet, huh?
I ought to have gotten my phone number put on there as well, but at the time I thought I was getting a new number with my new mobile phone and instead opted for just the email address. I'm going to have the number added sometime this summer. It's a great way to get your contact info on your bird, especially for tail and backpack mounts.
They can also etch your contact info onto your receiver.

Justin

Hawkmaster
24-06-2010, 02:15 PM
Very impressive Justin and thank you!

Thread rated as excellent and 5 stars!:supz:

CanadaManada
24-06-2010, 02:34 PM
Very impressive Justin and thank you!

Thread rated as excellent and 5 stars!:supz:

Mymymymymymymy!
Do I get a jacket, too? Lol

Thanks, Paul. It's something nobody else had really done, so I thought I'd step up. Besides, being the terrible falconer that I am, it comes in handy!

Justin

Hawkmaster
24-06-2010, 02:36 PM
I have personally done it with various sets and have found in my area 433 is the best and I forund TinyLoc out performed Marshall too.

I would like to put the 433 Marshall transmitter up against the TinyLoc now;)

HallBeck
24-06-2010, 02:42 PM
I would love to see a side by side test of the Marshall 173 and 433 systems.

I use the 433 and i love it - but i do often wonder what signal i would get with an identical setup, but on 173.

I am tempted to backpack a transmitter next season and tail mount one on the other frequecy. The 433 system is so compact its no bother carrying it. I could leave the 173 receiver in the car in case i really lose the bird.

SkyGuard
24-06-2010, 05:02 PM
I am currently trying to make my mind up over which to go for 173 or 433 I love the look and size of the 433 but worry the range with the hills etc where I live wouldnt be any good.:confused:

CanadaManada
25-06-2010, 01:49 AM
I am currently trying to make my mind up over which to go for 173 or 433 I love the look and size of the 433 but worry the range with the hills etc where I live wouldnt be any good.:confused:

Well, 216 would probably be "good", but in hills the 173 outperforms 216, making 173 "better". That's just physics, and nobody can argue with it.
I think that looks are important, but not as important as range.


Justin

I have personally done it with various sets and have found in my area 433 is the best and I forund TinyLoc out performed Marshall too.

I would like to put the 433 Marshall transmitter up against the TinyLoc now;)

I would, too, but Tinyloc is, shall we say, reluctant to send me a test unit. It's not as though they couldn't do it, but any emails I've sent above Nick, proposing such a thing, have gone unanswered. Aside from Nick, Tinyloc is the only company that won't talk to me.
Paul, you may want to talk to Tommy no mates on here. He left Tinyloc for Marshall and has a very different opinion to yours.

Justin

I would love to see a side by side test of the Marshall 173 and 433 systems.

I use the 433 and i love it - but i do often wonder what signal i would get with an identical setup, but on 173.

I am tempted to backpack a transmitter next season and tail mount one on the other frequecy. The 433 system is so compact its no bother carrying it. I could leave the 173 receiver in the car in case i really lose the bird.

There really is no comparison, I've found. The two frequencies behave as differently as one could imagine.
For me, in the flats where I live, 173 is pretty much useless, as I've found the signal lacks range in open space. The 433 is great because it has the characteristics needed for open space flying. But if my bird were to go over the hills, I'd have very little chance of getting a signal without going over that hill, myself - the 173 , on the other hand, may "bend" around that hill.

My least used sets are my 173s.
Justin

Hawkmaster
25-06-2010, 09:32 AM
Maybe the answer is for everyone to do their own tests in their area they live in?

I also know that Tery Burden done a test with a new Marshall against the TinyLoc and his distance witht the TinyLoc was far greater.

TinyLoc where I live out shines Marshall in the HILLS, open space for distance and in wooded areas it has more direction and pinpoint accuracy in finding your bird.

I have tried to contact Marshall UK to do the same test now with their new 433 transmitter against that of the 433 F22+ Tinyloc;)

HallBeck
25-06-2010, 10:23 AM
the 173 , on the other hand, may "bend" around that hill.

My least used sets are my 173s.
Justin

Thats what i would like to know Justin - just how likely is that signal going to come over that hill?!

The problem with me is that on one side of me is a huge wide open and flat space (12 miles by 30 miles at a guess) and at the back of me are the hills.

I recently bought the new Marshall 433 and i absolutely love it. I have had a fair few trackdowns in rolling countryside and its been great, but the bird hasn't been more than a mile before she killed. So whilst the bird has been on the ground everytime - she hasn't been that far either.

CanadaManada
25-06-2010, 11:39 AM
Maybe the answer is for everyone to do their own tests in their area they live in?

I also know that Tery Burden done a test with a new Marshall against the TinyLoc and his distance witht the TinyLoc was far greater.

TinyLoc where I live out shines Marshall in the HILLS, open space for distance and in wooded areas it has more direction and pinpoint accuracy in finding your bird.

I have tried to contact Marshall UK to do the same test now with their new 433 transmitter against that of the 433 F22+ Tinyloc;)

That's a fairly broad statement to make, Paul. Are you saying you put the Tinyloc 433 against Marshall's 216 and 173 and that Tinyloc outperformed under every circumstance, including wooded areas?

The problem with the previous Tinyloc writeups and the reason I lobbied so heavily to get one were that the rave reviews coincided neatly with Tinyloc's sudden and loud arrival on the scene and a couple of the people who were shouting loudest were rumoured to have received some sort of conpensation from Tinyloc. The fanfare seemed to disappear with Tinyloc's sale to Sportdog, which only fanned those flames of rumour.

It's fairly simple to get Marshall 433 transmitters into your hands, Paul, but could you be a truly unbiased tester? I'm trying to scrape the money together to buy a Tinyloc, and the current state of the Euro is making it a more realistic possibility. If I spend that much money - and the pricetag is dear - it better do what it says on the tin. Tommy no Mates wasn't impressed, and he isn't even a longwinger. If it does perform as you say, I'd be an instand convert. How about I send you my Marshall or Comspec 216 system for a loan and you send me your Tinyloc to do a 433 showdown? That sure would save me some money. I'd even shoot video of the two, side by side in testing.


Justin

Thats what i would like to know Justin - just how likely is that signal going to come over that hill?!

The problem with me is that on one side of me is a huge wide open and flat space (12 miles by 30 miles at a guess) and at the back of me are the hills.

I recently bought the new Marshall 433 and i absolutely love it. I have had a fair few trackdowns in rolling countryside and its been great, but the bird hasn't been more than a mile before she killed. So whilst the bird has been on the ground everytime - she hasn't been that far either.

"Just how likely" is a question I couldn't possibly answer, as it depends on too many things. I can say that the 216 is MORE likely and the 173 is MOST likely, while the 433 is LEAST likely to "bend" around the same hill.

RedNoseK9
25-06-2010, 11:57 AM
I have used the Tinyloc system for a fair few seasons now and I have also used the Marshall 433 system or tested it I should say as a friend has one, On distance things are pretty even but for direction there was no contest the Tinyloc out performed every time and accuracy.
The Tinyloc takes a bit more getting used to and it could do with a pistol grip but thats its only down side, I continue to use the Tinyloc on my Eagle and any other birds I fly !!

Wez

CanadaManada
25-06-2010, 12:05 PM
I have used the Tinyloc system for a fair few seasons now and I have also used the Marshall 433 system or tested it I should say as a friend has one, On distance things are pretty even but for direction there was no contest the Tinyloc out performed every time and accuracy.
The Tinyloc takes a bit more getting used to and it could do with a pistol grip but thats its only down side, I continue to use the Tinyloc on my Eagle and any other birds I fly !!

Wez

Sounds good. Would you use it in the rain? I have no reservations about using my Marshalls in the rain, but I wouldn't dare haul out any of my other receivers for fear of frying them. Most manufacturers don't cover water damage. I'm not sure if Tinyloc does or not, but they make no mention of water anywhere online.

Justin

RedNoseK9
25-06-2010, 12:16 PM
Ive used it in snow in scotland and had no problems at all I havent had to use it in rain yet !!

Wez


Sounds good. Would you use it in the rain? I have no reservations about using my Marshalls in the rain, but I wouldn't dare haul out any of my other receivers for fear of frying them. Most manufacturers don't cover water damage. I'm not sure if Tinyloc does or not, but they make no mention of water anywhere online.

Justin

Chrisy
25-06-2010, 02:17 PM
i have a marshal 5 channel with an RT+ and have found it to do the job i need it for. i have found my Harris in heavy woodland on a kill with the system and have found the distance of signal to be more than enough. i wouldn't change my system unless it was an upgrade and i have to say that upgrade would be a marshal system. the other systems look too tacky for me so id stick with marshal and i cant see another system the same price out preforming marshal that's just my opinion but if its not broke don't fix it hey. for me just looking at all the systems you can see the marshal is made to last and more work as gone into it. for me marshal wins hands down and i don't need to see the results i know what they will be

Pavel Yakimov
29-06-2010, 12:41 PM
Hi, Justin!

If you have time I would like to ask for your experts opinion on the following - which to choose 173 or 150 (151) MHz?

Best regards,
Pavel

CanadaManada
30-06-2010, 01:03 AM
Hi, Justin!

If you have time I would like to ask for your experts opinion on the following - which to choose 173 or 150 (151) MHz?

Best regards,
Pavel

Pavel,
In what kind of terrain?

I know of guys in the U.S. that run dogs after pigs and they use gear around 117Mhz if they can get it. Their thinking is "the lower the better".
The deeper the cover, or the wetter the cover, the lower your frequency should be, under ideal conditions. The same goes for hills/mountains.

Justin

Пламен Пенев
02-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Hi,

what is your opinion about XLF-4 ,mates ?

I have use power max transmitter with L.L. receiver and I think they aren't good combination.....the signal from transmitter is lower than usally..that's my opinion.Friend of mine cut his antenas of Pawer Max and XLF-2 at 6 inches(they were more practical :lol::lol:)...and he told me ,that the signal from XLF is at times more strong then Pawer Max(before and after cuting).His receiver is L.L.,too.The signals from XLF is more clear and strong then PM ,when we use L.L. receivers ?!?

And my question is why the producers of telemetry don't systematize they recievers and transmitters at the same frequency ?


Regards.

CanadaManada
03-07-2010, 01:13 PM
Hi,

what is your opinion about XLF-4 ,mates ?

I have use power max transmitter with L.L. receiver and I think they aren't good combination.....the signal from transmitter is lower than usally..that's my opinion.Friend of mine cut his antenas of Pawer Max and XLF-2 at 6 inches(they were more practical :lol::lol:)...and he told me ,that the signal from XLF is at times more strong then Pawer Max(before and after cuting).His receiver is L.L.,too.The signals from XLF is more clear and strong then PM ,when we use L.L. receivers ?!?

And my question is why the producers of telemetry don't systematize they recievers and transmitters at the same frequency ?







Please read from post #99 of this thread. I have a Luksander LF-4 and it is THE WORST TRANSMITTER I have ever had.

I'm not sure what you mean about the XLF-4 outperforming the Powermax but my LF-4 failed to come close to the performance of an RT+ and a Merlin Systems 1/3MX, both of which have lower output than the Powermax.

I had a Luksander receiver here, an MNS, triple-conversion - the best they make. I didn't like it and sold it for a bargain price about 2 weeks ago.

Plenty of guys like them, but those are my thoughts on Luksander.

Justin

Leo 1
07-07-2010, 02:41 AM
Pavel,
In what kind of terrain?

I know of guys in the U.S. that run dogs after pigs and they use gear around 117Mhz if they can get it. Their thinking is "the lower the better".
The deeper the cover, or the wetter the cover, the lower your frequency should be, under ideal conditions. The same goes for hills/mountains.

Justin

173 in a country side with opern land and woodlan/farm buildings

Pendleside
07-07-2010, 04:13 AM
Maybe the answer is for everyone to do their own tests in their area they live in?

I also know that Tery Burden done a test with a new Marshall against the TinyLoc and his distance witht the TinyLoc was far greater.

TinyLoc where I live out shines Marshall in the HILLS, open space for distance and in wooded areas it has more direction and pinpoint accuracy in finding your bird.

I have tried to contact Marshall UK to do the same test now with their new 433 transmitter against that of the 433 F22+ Tinyloc;)

i was there when the ' test ' was done , it was pretty straight forward as in transmitters hung in a tree and we drove to town for a fish supper .

what no-one seems to take into account with this test is that terry's system ( tinylok ) was brand new at the time - therefore the batteries were brand new also .

i know no-one put brand new batteries into the other systems being used at the time , ( i know at least one was marshall but im'e not sure of the frequency ) and this hasnt been mentioned or brought up when this ' test ' is discussed .

the other systems were also in the ' well used ' category i dont remember anyone having a new marshalls system , perhaps they should have been serviced prior to testing , but it was pretty much off the cuff just to see how terry's gear compared to the rest so no forethought was put into the ' test ' .

if the other systems were on used batteries then this would have had a dramatic effect on the result , new batteries would obviously send out a more powerful and more consistant signal .

as far as i remember it wasnt in front by a country mile anyhow , perhaps it needs to be done again this year with new batteries in all components and systems and all systems taking part having had a recent service so that all systems are operating at their best .

pete.

Chris Hawke
07-07-2010, 11:06 AM
cracking thread, nice one!!!
really helped me, in making my purchase decision.
gone with marshall 173, with scout transmitter.
for a male gos in the hills. ;)

Stu Bailey
07-07-2010, 11:54 AM
cracking thread, nice one!!!
really helped me, in making my purchase decision.
gone with marshall 173, with scout transmitter.
for a male gos in the hills. ;)

Id get another tranny for the leg

atb..

Aman
07-07-2010, 12:27 PM
cracking thread, nice one!!!
really helped me, in making my purchase decision.
gone with marshall 173, with scout transmitter.
for a male gos in the hills. ;)

For what it is worth, if you are going to Back Pack mount the transmitter, i have found the Marshall Power Max to be the best on my Female B Spar (760grms) , it weighs less than the scout and if i am not mistaken is more powerful. It sits flat on her back, and touch wood, i haven't yet had a hangup when hawking in dense bush, whereas i have had with a number of other transmitters. A number of people are of the opinion that it the transmitter was made for falcons, which it was i guess, yet it is awesome when backpack mounted on short-wings.

Cheers
Alec

CanadaManada
07-07-2010, 12:50 PM
For what it is worth, if you are going to Back Pack mount the transmitter, i have found the Marshall Power Max to be the best on my Female B Spar (760grms) , it weighs less than the scout and if i am not mistaken is more powerful. It sits flat on her back, and touch wood, i haven't yet had a hangup when hawking in dense bush, whereas i have had with a number of other transmitters. A number of people are of the opinion that it the transmitter was made for falcons, which it was i guess, yet it is awesome when backpack mounted on short-wings.

Cheers



Alec


Alec,
The Powermax is waaaaaay more powerful than the Scout.
Have you guys had any backpack hangups with your black spars?
Justin

Aman
07-07-2010, 08:49 PM
I have had, mainly with the barrel type transmitters, such as the XLF and RT, although i am a fan of both-for falcons. I have found that thin foliage catches between the spring and the transmitter and hamper's the bird when it is crashing around in thick cover after its intended victim. A freind of mine is flying a musket black spar, also trackpack mounted, yet with a RT+, the bird flew through a 5 strand barbwire fence and returned without the transmitter, when he went in search of the transmitter he found it lying along side the fence with the 2 round bends in the top of the spring clip missing ( if you can imagine the spring clip with two straight ends) they broke off on the mounting plate on impact, increadably the bird sustained no visible injury. Had he been flying with a powermax i believe the chances of this happening would not be as great due to its slimmer design and the absence of any gap between the transmitter and spring. Even though it was originally designed as the ideal tale mount for large falcons, i believe it has become the ideal backpack mount period, especially for hawks.

I am currently helping out with a Taita falcon that is flying at 300grms, she too is backpack mounted and is carrying the old style powermax with a base loaded antennae quite comfortably, because these hawks are so rare we were hesitant to put a micro on her.

To conclude i am also a firm believer in using the most powerful receivers and transmitters on my hawks, regardless on the species. Their is a common consensus in South Africa that Black Spars don't fly far enough to warrant the use of powerful transmitters, some believe that bells are adequate enough. On two occasions now my B Spar has hopped up into a thermal and literally disappeared ( i wish my falcon would fly this high) , on both occasions i have been able to breath, simply because i know their is a nice strong signal pumping off her back. She is an imprint, their is in-turn an added danger, so when i want to track and recover her i want to do it as quickly as possible.

So for all intent and purpose don't go to gun fight with your pen knife :box: You can never have to much power, even if it makes the close up tracking difficult - at least you know the hawk is close....

Пламен Пенев
09-07-2010, 08:44 AM
Please read from post #99 of this thread. I have a Luksander LF-4 and it is THE WORST TRANSMITTER I have ever had.

I'm not sure what you mean about the XLF-4 outperforming the Powermax but my LF-4 failed to come close to the performance of an RT+ and a Merlin Systems 1/3MX, both of which have lower output than the Powermax.

I had a Luksander receiver here, an MNS, triple-conversion - the best they make. I didn't like it and sold it for a bargain price about 2 weeks ago.

Plenty of guys like them, but those are my thoughts on Luksander.

Justin

Thanks mate !!!!

CanadaManada
25-07-2010, 12:50 AM
I'm back. Been busy, as usual, but I got some toys last week and wanted to show everyone a couple of new things.
First is the new Marshall signal detector. I figure this thing saves me a bunch of time. Instead of having to turn on the receiver everytime I switch on a transmitter, I just touch the sensor's magnet to the transmitter, then I push the button and the beep tells me if the TX is running, or not. When switching off, I just do the same. I'm so paranoid about telemetry that I turn on the transmitter, fit everything, then double check just before the bird flies. That can lead to quite a bit of fumbling around in the field. Since getting this new signal sensor, I've removed my old Marshall magnet from my lanyard and replaced it with this, and I'm more willing to leave the receiver in the van after fine-tuning.

In my opinion, for flying longwings, fine-tuning the transmitter to the receiver is absolutely essential, pre-flight, but this sensor does cut down on double-checking and shutdown times and I'm already considering it an indespensible tool for the muli-transmitter user. For the broad/shortwinger, where fine-tuning doesn't have the same high priority, this saves even more time. I've tested it on my 173, 216, 217, 218, 219, and 433Mhz transmitters and all are covered.

I'd like to say that I don't believe this is a viable substitute for a receiver, as in a trackdown situation, you need to get the bird back in hand ASAP, but it is just about the most convenient thing I've gotten my hands on in a while.

Man, they're going to sell a bunch of these things, once enough guys see them in the field.

Justin

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2758Small.jpg

Rabadswompe
25-07-2010, 12:55 AM
Your product reviews are always appreciated Justin!

Thank you for taking on this project!

CanadaManada
25-07-2010, 01:14 AM
Next up is the Wildlife Materials TRX3-S.
This is a nice, robust receiver with the mini antenna. The antenna is made from nearly unbreakable printed circuitboard material, just like the Tracker receivers and this does away with the monster yagis we see on other box-type receivers. There is a nice little folding handle on the bttom that does a good job and folds back out of the way for storing the unit in the belt holster. The performance should be pretty good, as this receiver was once the first Field Marshall, years back.
The antennas fold out to a nice compact footprint that should make for good navigation in cover. With the right marketing, this could be a Luksander killer.

I haven't field tested this yet but from looking at it I would guess there is strong directionality in the antenna. I'll try to take it out in a few days.

Justin


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2756Small.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2757Small.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2761Small.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2762Small.jpg

CanadaManada
25-07-2010, 01:30 AM
After taking off the front cowling via the thumbscrews (no screwdriver needed - are you listening, Luksander?), we can now see the frequency list, antenna connector, attenuator switch and battery pack.
The battery pack has a bit too much space in there and jiggles around, so I'll have to put some EVA foam down the side. That ought to secure things nicely for about 10 cents. It takes 8 AAA batteries in total.
It would be very practical to use these antennas on other box-type receivers like Luksanders and Comspecs if, like me, you abhor the thought of enormous yagis. I'll probably take the antenna off at some point for a closer look.

Justin

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2763Small.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2764Small.jpg

CanadaManada
25-07-2010, 01:58 AM
Your product reviews are always appreciated Justin!

Thank you for taking on this project!

Hey, I'm learning as I go.
I was going to buy one of these TRX units, 1st when I got into falconry, but I didn't have the money at the time.
Now I can buy the ones that I am interested in and share with everyone else the results I come up with.

It makes for a bit of reading for you guys during the moult and offers a distraction from all the negativity that has been floating around here as of late.

Justin

911
25-07-2010, 02:37 AM
Hi Justin;

Of innovations you can prove the new Marshall cartop.!!!

http://marshallradio.com/en/marshall-radio-telemetry-gulf-region-falconry/108-cartop-directional-antenna

Cheers from Spain.

Pendleside
25-07-2010, 02:44 AM
Hi Justin;

Of innovations you can prove the new Marshall cartop.!!!

http://marshallradio.com/en/marshall-radio-telemetry-gulf-region-falconry/108-cartop-directional-antenna

Cheers from Spain.

haha , that baby would have the tv licence dodgers turning jeremy kyle off as soon as they saw it go down the road :lol:

makes my omni directional look a bit heath robinson though :oops:

pete.

CanadaManada
25-07-2010, 03:08 AM
Hi Justin;

Of innovations you can prove the new Marshall cartop.!!!

http://marshallradio.com/en/marshall-radio-telemetry-gulf-region-falconry/108-cartop-directional-antenna

Cheers from Spain.

Yeah sure. Get one of those, put a North Korea decal on the car door and drive around the streets in Japan...

Instant fame!

Justin

911
25-07-2010, 03:37 AM
:lol::lol::lol::lol:!!!!!!!!!

RKumetz
29-07-2010, 12:13 AM
Hey, I'm learning as I go.
I was going to buy one of these TRX units, 1st when I got into falconry, but I didn't have the money at the time.
Now I can buy the ones that I am interested in and share with everyone else the results I come up with.

I did some testing on a TRX3 myself. It has ok sensitivity however its big failing is that it is very poorly shielded. Trying to find a lost transmitter or a bird down in dense vegetation is troublesome because at a certain point the receiver can get signal directly thorough the case even without an antenna. That causes you to get erroneous readings off the side and back of the antenna even if you try to insert attenuators or use a paddle antenna instead of the yagi.

That being said it actually works in extreme cold which I cannot say for the Tracker Maxima.

CanadaManada
29-07-2010, 01:25 AM
I did some testing on a TRX3 myself. It has ok sensitivity however its big failing is that it is very poorly shielded. Trying to find a lost transmitter or a bird down in dense vegetation is troublesome because at a certain point the receiver can get signal directly thorough the case even without an antenna. That causes you to get erroneous readings off the side and back of the antenna even if you try to insert attenuators or use a paddle antenna instead of the yagi.

That being said it actually works in extreme cold which I cannot say for the Tracker Maxima.


Hi. Thanks for your comments.
Were you using it with they yagi or with the mini antenna? Did it have the front cowling in place? One could assume that the shielding would not be enough for high-power transmitters, so I will run a lower-power TX in my test. In the test I will try it with cowling removed as well as in place, to see if the cowling does indeed shield the front end.


I've had a Maxima freeze up, but curiously the more basic Tracker Classic has no trouble in the cold. Possibly because it's a bit more old school and LED vs LCD in the cold is an easy guess.


Justin

CanadaManada
02-08-2010, 03:48 AM
I have been testing these 3 TRX3 receivers over the past few days.
What I have found was pretty much what I'd expected, a Tracker Classic class directionality with better range. I consider this an entry level receiver for the shortwinger which has much of the same limitations as the Tracker Classic. It does have 3 channels, one more than the Tracker Classic. The channels have 30Mhs separation, and that is a good spacing for controlling signal overlap when running more than one transmitter at the same time.

This is a lightweight (575g), compact set that does a good job. The LED signal meter is a nice touch for nighttime tracking and is easy to read. The fine-tuning and gain knobs do their jobs well and the extra attenuator in the front end keeps things under control for up-close tracking. With the attenuator on and gain turned down, I was unable to flood the receiver with signal from a Marshall Scout. I noticed little difference to the signal with the cowling in place or removed.
The antenna elements are going to stand up to just about anything you could throw at them and are much better for navigating brush and cover than a full sized yagi.

For the money, I rate this above the Luksander for shortwingers and just below or equal to the Tracker Classic (Fintracker).

Justin

Barry
19-08-2010, 03:49 PM
Any new observations for us yet Justin?

Just a question I want to throw too. I use a 1000 channel marshall set on 173 to cover 10 transmitters and two dog tracking collars. Generally the whole system performs flawlessly aside from a couple of incidents with transmitters failing. The issue is normally the magnetic switches. The real sleep depriving issue I have is with the Micro transmitter. Now the first thing I'll say is that the support from Marshall UK and Stephen Lea's service has been first rate and unquestioning which is a saving grace. To the point, I look after transmitters and receivers fastidiously. Everything lives in a Marshall hard case. Anything grubby is cleaned. I detest bent atennas! Anyway, the Micro transmitters, despite carefull treatment seem to be unrelaible. I have them refuse to turn on without a battery removal and reset which is upsetting for the timer system. Then they won't turn off without a battery removal. Other times you turn them on, fit them to the bird, check fro signal before slipping and all is well. Fly the bird for 15 minutes, (I use these on male Barbaries) remove the transmitter, turn the receiver on to listen when you turn the transmitter off - and it's already off. This is one way to have your confidence killed. It's happened now with maybe three of four newly replaced transmitters. Batteries have always been those supplied by Marshall. I experimented recently with Energizer batteries but had the same issues. This is in warm, cold, dry, wet conditions - no climatic link. The most recent issue was yesterday with a new young Barbary. Brand new battery right out of the blister. Transmitter on, checked, bird flown, picked up, transmitter removed and found switched off. A tap of the magnet switched it back on, but then the magnet didn't want to switch it back off. Took about 15 attempts to go back down.
In 'off bird' tests, I've never been able to reproduce the symptoms.

I've found nothing that across the board gives the performance of Marshall stuff - even the Micro when it works. But it does have me worried every time I fly something small. I'm at the point where my confidence is so shot, that I'm considering an alternative system just for the Barbaries in a trade from performance to reliability and peace of mind.

Have you ever come across anything like this in your tests - which have been eye opening, so for that, I thank you.

Barry

SugezWolf
19-08-2010, 06:24 PM
Any new observations for us yet Justin?

Just a question I want to throw too. I use a 1000 channel marshall set on 173 to cover 10 transmitters and two dog tracking collars. Generally the whole system performs flawlessly aside from a couple of incidents with transmitters failing. The issue is normally the magnetic switches. The real sleep depriving issue I have is with the Micro transmitter. Now the first thing I'll say is that the support from Marshall UK and Stephen Lea's service has been first rate and unquestioning which is a saving grace. To the point, I look after transmitters and receivers fastidiously. Everything lives in a Marshall hard case. Anything grubby is cleaned. I detest bent atennas! Anyway, the Micro transmitters, despite carefull treatment seem to be unrelaible. I have them refuse to turn on without a battery removal and reset which is upsetting for the timer system. Then they won't turn off without a battery removal. Other times you turn them on, fit them to the bird, check fro signal before slipping and all is well. Fly the bird for 15 minutes, (I use these on male Barbaries) remove the transmitter, turn the receiver on to listen when you turn the transmitter off - and it's already off. This is one way to have your confidence killed. It's happened now with maybe three of four newly replaced transmitters. Batteries have always been those supplied by Marshall. I experimented recently with Energizer batteries but had the same issues. This is in warm, cold, dry, wet conditions - no climatic link. The most recent issue was yesterday with a new young Barbary. Brand new battery right out of the blister. Transmitter on, checked, bird flown, picked up, transmitter removed and found switched off. A tap of the magnet switched it back on, but then the magnet didn't want to switch it back off. Took about 15 attempts to go back down.
In 'off bird' tests, I've never been able to reproduce the symptoms.

I've found nothing that across the board gives the performance of Marshall stuff - even the Micro when it works. But it does have me worried every time I fly something small. I'm at the point where my confidence is so shot, that I'm considering an alternative system just for the Barbaries in a trade from performance to reliability and peace of mind.

Have you ever come across anything like this in your tests - which have been eye opening, so for that, I thank you.

Barry


Hi Barry .........not directed at me I know but.......I have used the P-Max/Micro combo on my tiercels for about 5 years. In that time I have had only 2 Micros but had no problems whatsoever. However I have extensive experience of P-Max - having had numerous examples over the past decade - and have had a few displaying similar symptoms to those you describe. These have been returned to Stephen and replaced & are clearly faulty. Personally I would use the micro on the barb's tail & use the PM on the backpack - a great combo!

Gerry x

Barry
19-08-2010, 07:58 PM
Hi Barry .........not directed at me I know but.......I have used the P-Max/Micro combo on my tiercels for about 5 years. In that time I have had only 2 Micros but had no problems whatsoever. However I have extensive experience of P-Max - having had numerous examples over the past decade - and have had a few displaying similar symptoms to those you describe. These have been returned to Stephen and replaced & are clearly faulty. Personally I would use the micro on the barb's tail & use the PM on the backpack - a great combo!

Gerry x

Thanks for that Gerry, I've had similar issues with Powermax, and an old powermax Gulf version. However, they were all infrequent, whereas the Micro's seem to give me this issue about once every few weeks. It's a nightmare. For such a small transmitter the performance is incredible, but they put me so on edge. Interesting that everything else from old BP's, to RT+ and Scouts have never ever showed this problem.
Also, I'm obsessed by weight. Once reliable, anything under 16ozs I fly with no jesses, and the micro for weight saving. I really don't want to add another transmitter. I use only tail mounts. I'm a bit of a Luddite and a backpack sceptic.
Cheers
Barry

OutFlying
19-08-2010, 08:21 PM
Never had a problem with micros other than double beeping early, the earlier model still works fine without a problem.

The merlin mini fmv is a decent size and reliable but doesn't have the range of the micro.

Jim.

CanadaManada
19-08-2010, 11:15 PM
Barry, I'm like you - a real telemetry snob. The antennas have to be straighter than the Marlboro Man. I even bought one of the transmitter cases off a guy on here a while back - speaking of which I have to put some pics up of that, too, because it's great kit.
In all the hours I've run my Marshall transmitters, and I have the full range over 3 different frequencies, I've never experienced a fault of any sort. I read stories like yours and just don't understand. Come to think of it, of all the Marshall transmitter/Tracker receiver sets I've sold on here - must be about 20 by now - I've never had anyone complain to me about a transmitter fault... Come to think of it now, I've never had a transmitter malfunction under normal use including Marshall, Merlin, Luksander (ran down the battery fast, but it worked) or Saker (I killed the saker transmitter back in my bucket test) transmitters. I must be lucky, or I must be doing something differently, which I suspect may be the case.

I really don't know what to say, as you seem to be taking care of your gear in much the same way as do I. I've stopped doing things like carrying my magnet on the lanyard or anywhere on the front of my body, for fear of incidental contact with a running transmitter. I put my magnets in my back pocket or the back of the bag. I've never had an incident, but I am paranoid about avoiding one.

Justin

SugezWolf
20-08-2010, 10:49 AM
I must be lucky, or I must be doing something differently, which I suspect may be the case.

Lucky I think Justin.

Virtually all of my P-Max failures have been with brand new transmitters...........I run them on test until satisfied they won't fail.

Gerry x

CanadaManada
14-10-2010, 01:35 AM
I bought a great transmitter case from Andy1 on here - owner of Fileld and Falcon http://www.fieldandfalcon.co.uk/
It's a fantastic bit of gear for anyone with more than one transmitter.
I'd lost an RT+ over the summer through my own disorganisation, so I figured one of these was a necessity. as it turns out, I found the RT+ about a week after this transmitter case arrived.
Many thanks to Andy and I highly reccomend his cases, along with his customer service.

Justin
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2816Medium.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2812Medium.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2811Medium.jpg

Barry
14-10-2010, 01:40 PM
I bought a great transmitter case from Andy1 on here - owner of Fileld and Falcon http://www.fieldandfalcon.co.uk/
It's a fantastic bit of gear for anyone with more than one transmitter.
I'd lost an RT+ over the summer through my own disorganisation, so I figured one of these was a necessity. as it turns out, I found the RT+ about a week after this transmitter case arrived.
Many thanks to Andy and I highly reccomend his cases, along with his customer service.

Justin
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2816Medium.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2812Medium.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSCN2811Medium.jpg

Now that I like! I'll be contacting Andy today!

Barry

Joy
15-10-2010, 12:04 AM
blunt and to the point :supz: great read and informative i havnt used a telem yet im still in the learning stage of which 1 to buy before i get my bird ill keep checking back on this thread great work keep it up
joy :D

CanadaManada
18-10-2010, 01:15 PM
The guys at Marshall were kind enough to send me one of their new HSL yagis for evaluation. They've asked me to post the good, the bad and the ugly here, with no holds barred. They seem highly confident in this antenna.

I've been away for a couple of days but I thought I'd take a few minutes tonight to show you what they've developed.
I'm blown away by the workmanship and the reduction in overall size and weight. The new HSL yagi mounts on the newer digital Marshall receivers and accepts the same pistol grip for off-receiver use. I'm not sure if they will mount on the older receivers but I will check that out tomorrow. Marshall has not provided me with statistical information of any sort on this yagi so I'm fairly in the dark as to the performance characteristics. I'll try to get some numbers worked up tomorrow for size and weight as I continue with this and see what the HSL yagi is capable of. I could probably best test it against the 2nd generation yagi by switching between them while running the same test transmitter. I'll use the 4ft coax cable for that. You'll see what I mean once i get to testing.

The photos are of the HSL yagi as I transplanted it onto my 216-219Mhz FM4000AG. The HSL covers all four of those bands. The old yagi now looks and feels monstrous by comparison. The upgrade makes me very happy because if the pistol grip is removed, my FM4000AG now becomes a pocket receiver. No more slinging it over my back. The yagi is a perfect fit to the receiver, and the pistol grip is a perfect fit to the bottom of the yagi, just as one would expect from CNC machined parts. Marshall's workmanship has no equal. This is no simple yagi. They've done something with the hairpin match (the bit that sticks up off the top of every yagi) and have flattened it out considerably. Less catching on brush.
I'm curious to see if this is smaller than the antenna on my 433/434Mhz Marshall FM2000.
Evolution!!!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0277Large.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0280Large.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0284Large.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0289Large.jpg
Justin

VGParcels
18-10-2010, 02:31 PM
Nice looking bit of kit Justin, wonder what it performs like.
Gary

Barry
18-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Nice one Justin. Looking forward to seeing if this is a worthwhile upgrade for my 173 system.
Barry

Pavel Yakimov
19-10-2010, 07:45 PM
Pavel,
In what kind of terrain?

I know of guys in the U.S. that run dogs after pigs and they use gear around 117Mhz if they can get it. Their thinking is "the lower the better".
The deeper the cover, or the wetter the cover, the lower your frequency should be, under ideal conditions. The same goes for hills/mountains.

Justin

Thank you, Justin!

CanadaManada
21-10-2010, 12:39 PM
Before I get down to the real testing, I thought I'd share these pics sent to me by Marshall.
It's so small!
I'm told that they are also developing new versions of the 173 and 433 yagis, as well. No idea of when those will be released.


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/MR_10-8-2010_070.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/MR_10-8-2010_063.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/MR_10-8-2010_049.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/MR_10-8-2010_036.jpg

Itchy
21-10-2010, 01:01 PM
I wonder why Marshall would develop a new version of the 433/34 yagi when it is already so small?

CanadaManada
21-10-2010, 01:26 PM
I wonder why Marshall would develop a new version of the 433/34 yagi when it is already so small?

There is no such thing as "good enough" and no room for complacency if you want to stay on top.

Bunny Blaster
25-10-2010, 10:38 PM
:supz:have you compared them yet, is there any difference.cheers

Hatchero
26-10-2010, 02:09 AM
come man, lets here it. i want to know if your tests live up to our expectations.
jim

CanadaManada
26-10-2010, 05:50 AM
come man, lets here it. i want to know if your tests live up to our expectations.
jim

Snowin' n' blowin' like Lindsay Lohan's birthday party here!
Once the weather clears I'm going to do a 2 receiver x 2 antenna 4 way test, tentatively scheduled for Thursday.
Can't give all you kiddies your Halloween goodies in one shot, can I?
I've run them inside and around the yard, and you know - Che loos good to me, mang!

Jim, when are you gonna send me one of those Xtennae??? Get a stick and get in the game!

Justin

VGParcels
30-10-2010, 12:44 AM
Justine I have a tracker ultima have you tried them with a full sized yagi plugged in, just a thought.
Gary

CanadaManada
01-11-2010, 01:17 AM
Justine I have a tracker ultima have you tried them with a full sized yagi plugged in, just a thought.
Gary

Who's Justine????

You may want to ask Jim (Hatchero) about that, as its a product he has intimate knowlege about. I know a fair bit about the Tracker Classic, but that one doesn't have the capability of attaching an external yagi.

There are potential considerations with powered vs non-powered yagi use with the Maxima/Ultima and Jim can tell you which is best.

Over to you, Jim?

Justin

VGParcels
01-11-2010, 02:41 PM
Who's Justine????

You may want to ask Jim (Hatchero) about that, as its a product he has intimate knowlege about. I know a fair bit about the Tracker Classic, but that one doesn't have the capability of attaching an external yagi.

There are potential considerations with powered vs non-powered yagi use with the Maxima/Ultima and Jim can tell you which is best.

Over to you, Jim?

Justin
Sorry Justin mate slip of the keys lol:goodman:

come man, lets here it. i want to know if your tests live up to our expectations.
jim
I have a tracker ultima have you tried them with a full sized yagi plugged in, just a thought.
Gary

CanadaManada
02-11-2010, 04:38 AM
I'm sorry for the lack of pics, everyone, but I just wanted to pop on here quickly and let you know about my experiences with the new yagi from Marshall.
It's the real deal. I haven't conducted a detailed comparison yet, but from the test I did do, which was swapping the new and original yagis on my FM4000 and comparing the signal from an RT+ with the antenna removed, placed in a ditch at the end of my street, I'd say there is little to no difference between the two. I don't know how they did it without compromising performance, but from where I sit right now, they have indeed done it!!!
I'll want to do a more hardcore test, which I'll have ample opportunity for this and next week, as I'm trying to find the weight ceiling for a falcon...
It's a national holiday in Japan tomorrow - or at least I hope it is because I've cleared my schedule and told my clients I am taking the day off. Testing is on the menu along with flying.

I hear they will do a 173 version that will be the same size as last year's 216. Now that should make a lot of people smile in the UK!
The new 433/434 version will be the same size but will use the thinner diameter elements and the smooth hairpin match.

Sorry again for the lack of pics. I know you guys love to look at pics. I'll get some for you this week, I promise.

Busy, busy,
Justin

CanadaManada
04-11-2010, 02:22 PM
What a day and night!
I've been tracking a bird now for 13 hours.
He's moved 3 times and all 3 times I've managed to pinpoint his location, only to have him move again. Well, he's sat up now in the middle of a massive Japanese agribusiness farm. Massive place. I am sat outside the gate now and waiting for anyone to come by, all the while looking at google earth, trying to figure out a way in without getting in trouble. It may be a long night.
I've got my Tim Hortons mug full of tea (not Tim Hortons, mind you) and confidence that it'll all work out.

I've driven all around the perimiter and he's in a small forest down a valley.
The old Marshall yagi had been switched out for the new one and I can tell you that the directionality is second to none and the front/back seems far better on the new one - there is no confusing the signal in 180 degrees like with some other antennas. I've noticed no issues with range today and never felt once that I have the wrong gear.
I'm tracking one very very important bird and I've put the old yagi away.

The signals from the RT+ and the MX1/3N are banging. New batteries put in this morning. Funny thing is after having the receiver on for so long today I thought I'd swap out the batteries, just to be safe. I opened a new tray of 36 AAA Duracell batteries I'd bought at COSTCO last week. Every single one of them gave me a low battery warning. I put the older set back in and kept on my way with no trouble. Just goes to show you that "NEW" doesn't always mean "new" when it comes to batteries.

One of the places I tracked him to was a honey farm! Big sign telling me to stay out, and that the bees are dangerous, blah blah blah. Never a dull moment, I tell ya. The other place was up in high-tension power lines. 300ft towers just humming with interference. Nuts.

I'll let you guys know how it pans out.

Dave G
04-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Hope you get in and get the bird back ;)

Robert J Penney
04-11-2010, 04:01 PM
hat off to you , be interesting to see what happens but i bet marshall shall win ...

CanadaManada
05-11-2010, 01:48 PM
Well I got the bird back. It was my most difficult telemtry trackdown yet, with the bird moving multiple times in deep forest with muddy ravines and nearly impenetrable undergrowth.
Nearly 26 hours with 20 or so in the field. He covered a lot of ground and I got myself into a dangerous place this morning but now everyone is safe and sound.
The telemetry performed flawlessly.

Both the Marshall RT+ and the Merlin MX1/3N transmitters were still banging away this morning. The bird had been on high transmission wires yesterday and I was wondering if the current would affect the transmitters - NOPE! NO PROBLEMS!
The new yagi works great and I won't be going back to the other one.

I'd like to thank Marshall and Merlin for making the stuff that helps us get the birds back. Without them, my bird would still be out there tonight.

I'm dog tired, so I'm off to bed, but I did take some pics while I was out tracking. I'll get them uploaded in a day or two. They will give you an idea of the terrible conditions that this telemetry faced down.

I think my next purchases will be the Arab Gulf model of the Marshall RT+. I think it is called the RT Standard. Half the battery life but twice the power! I could probably ask them to program a slower pulserate and get more battery life out of it. It has a full-length antenna but that'll be fine on a backpack. You can never have too much power! I have a feeling I'll be tracking this bird down a few more times.
G'night!!!
Justin

TLDWB
05-11-2010, 01:58 PM
Your efforts are appreciated.

Tom

Imprint-x
06-11-2010, 11:33 PM
really informative and entertaining post.... keep up the good work:)

CanadaManada
22-11-2010, 08:47 AM
Sometimes we really need to get to a bird ASAP and get it back in hand.
You never know what's going to happen on any particular day and as the hours pass with a bird on the loose, what we don't know is often the worst part.
A British friend of mine over here in Japan was called in to help find a saker that some Japanese display falconers had lost. This bird has never had a hitch in three years of flying but a couple days ago it just straightlined, 30Km.
It was tracked down by my friend the next day, in mountainous terrain, altogether too late.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/Lostsaker.jpg

My friend figures that a goshawk had taken it in the trees.
This is why we can never truly relax when we've got a bird out. You just don't know what can happen, even if you've located the bird and gone home for a bit, waiting for the sun to come up.

There is no time to spare when it comes to tracking a bird.
Justin

Chris Proctor
22-11-2010, 06:35 PM
Sometimes we really need to get to a bird ASAP and get it back in hand.
You never know what's going to happen on any particular day and as the hours pass with a bird on the loose, what we don't know is often the worst part.
A British friend of mine over here in Japan was called in to help find a saker that some Japanese display falconers had lost. This bird has never had a hitch in three years of flying but a couple days ago it just straightlined, 30Km.
It was tracked down by my friend the next day, in mountainous terrain, altogether too late.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/Lostsaker.jpg

My friend figures that a goshawk had taken it in the trees.
This is why we can never truly relax when we've got a bird out. You just don't know what can happen, even if you've located the bird and gone home for a bit, waiting for the sun to come up.

There is no time to spare when it comes to tracking a bird.
Justin

You hear of these stories all the time, it's cool (but unfortunate) that you were able to show the aftermath of these types of searches...

Ned
22-11-2010, 06:53 PM
Justin sorry to hear about saker,what set-up was your mate using to track the falcon,atb Ned.

VGParcels
22-11-2010, 09:56 PM
You hear of these stories all the time, it's cool (but unfortunate) that you were able to show the aftermath of these types of searches...
That must be the worst sight a falconer could come across.:(

SeagulBasher
22-11-2010, 11:23 PM
Sometimes we really need to get to a bird ASAP and get it back in hand.
You never know what's going to happen on any particular day and as the hours pass with a bird on the loose, what we don't know is often the worst part.
A British friend of mine over here in Japan was called in to help find a saker that some Japanese display falconers had lost. This bird has never had a hitch in three years of flying but a couple days ago it just straightlined, 30Km.
It was tracked down by my friend the next day, in mountainous terrain, altogether too late.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/Lostsaker.jpg

My friend figures that a goshawk had taken it in the trees.
This is why we can never truly relax when we've got a bird out. You just don't know what can happen, even if you've located the bird and gone home for a bit, waiting for the sun to come up.

There is no time to spare when it comes to tracking a bird.
Justin

your not wrong there i've had two female prairies and a female gyr/saker killed by wild goshawks its not nice at all......

colin

CanadaManada
24-11-2010, 12:10 AM
Justin sorry to hear about saker,what set-up was your mate using to track the falcon,atb Ned.

Merlin Ultima and RT+

Ned
24-11-2010, 12:13 AM
Merlin Ultima and RT+

Cheers Justin.

CanadaManada
24-11-2010, 02:08 AM
Cheers Justin.

No problem, Ned. Good question, that.
Interestingly, he found the transmitter, but the leg bells were gone!!

Pete Biter
24-11-2010, 11:03 PM
Justin, I think you know your apples from your oranges in the fruity world of telemetry. What would you use on the back of a falcon: RT+ or powermax??

CanadaManada
25-11-2010, 01:04 AM
Justin, I think you know your apples from your oranges in the fruity world of telemetry. What would you use on the back of a falcon: RT+ or powermax??

Oh yeah, I'm right out there in the fruity world, I am. PMSL
I'm a bit wierd in that I prefer the RT+ over everything else, despite the power difference. Ideally, one on the back and one on the tail. I have a lot of faith in the 1/3N battery as opposed to the other batteries. It gets really cold over here and the transmitters stay on the birds 24/7, so I need that extra battery power/endurance. In the UK, I'd reccomend you go with a Powermax, though, as your temperatures are not severe in the least.

My next pickup is going to be the RT Standard - Gulf Edition transmitter. 4x the power of an RT+!!! It'll probably make my eybrows fall out or something!

Justin

Pete Biter
25-11-2010, 07:35 AM
Thanks Justin. I tend to use a pmax on the back and a micro on the tail - but I agree that the big and powerful 1/3 battery at the heart of the RT+ system is a big plus. If the RT+ could squeeze out the same power - for longer - than a pmax that might clinch it.

Keep on testing - it's really useful. Pete

CanadaManada
25-11-2010, 09:36 AM
Thanks Justin. I tend to use a pmax on the back and a micro on the tail - but I agree that the big and powerful 1/3 battery at the heart of the RT+ system is a big plus. If the RT+ could squeeze out the same power - for longer - than a pmax that might clinch it.

Keep on testing - it's really useful. Pete

Pete,
I've been thinking of sending one of my RT+s back for an adjustment of the signal puleswidth and PPM. I am wondering if I can slow it down enough to make a 1 month transmitter. With fewer and shorter pulses in a minute, for example, 3 shorter pules per second, it may be configurable as a long-life-leave-it-running transmitter.
I'm gonna look into it.

Thanks for reading.
Justin

Malcolm Edgar
25-11-2010, 05:02 PM
Pete,
I've been thinking of sending one of my RT+s back for an adjustment of the signal puleswidth and PPM. I am wondering if I can slow it down enough to make a 1 month transmitter. With fewer and shorter pulses in a minute, for example, 3 shorter pules per second, it may be configurable as a long-life-leave-it-running transmitter.
I'm gonna look into it.

Thanks for reading.
Justin

Justin-just reading that, convinces me you know your apples from your oranges etc. etc.:lol
Great reading keep it going.
M

SnakeHuts
28-11-2010, 09:51 AM
Ive read this thread as I have been considering changing my existing Falconry Electronics system on 173 hz and like Bones on the Tinyloc thread have not reached any conclusion as yet on which system or frequency to consider.

I fly daily in all weathers summer and winter in typical rolling shire type countryside, not usually woodland.

On Friday I was finnishing flying and just checked the tag by flicking on the reciever, the tag was a TX20 with a fairly new Varta CR1/3N lithium Cell, the tag double beeped indicating low battery life, so before flying yesterday morning I changed the tag battery for a new Varta CR1/3N cell straight from its bubble pack, manufacture date June 09, exp date Dec 2013. Fitted the cell at 9 am and at 9.45 am after first flight I checked the tag signal, it double beeped again which surprised me, ok temperatures were between minus 2 and minus 6 and I know temperature will effect battery condition but I must admit to being surprised. I always buy my batteries from a reliable supplier and have not had the problem before. I have purchased another make of CR1/3N cell to try later today.

I do not think it is the tag, but an issue with the cell.

At this stage I have not spoken to Eddie of Falconry Electronics.

I would be interested in hearing other peoples views and opinions on this. i considered Varta to be a decent manufacturer of batteries what makes do others use.

For anyone wondering why I have posted on this thread and not started a new one I was asked to add this by Justin himself, who I have chatted too about it in pm.

CanadaManada
29-11-2010, 01:04 AM
Ive read this thread as I have been considering changing my existing Falconry Electronics system on 173 hz and like Bones on the Tinyloc thread have not reached any conclusion as yet on which system or frequency to consider.

I fly daily in all weathers summer and winter in typical rolling shire type countryside, not usually woodland.

On Friday I was finnishing flying and just checked the tag by flicking on the reciever, the tag was a TX20 with a fairly new Varta CR1/3N lithium Cell, the tag double beeped indicating low battery life, so before flying yesterday morning I changed the tag battery for a new Varta CR1/3N cell straight from its bubble pack, manufacture date June 09, exp date Dec 2013. Fitted the cell at 9 am and at 9.45 am after first flight I checked the tag signal, it double beeped again which surprised me, ok temperatures were between minus 2 and minus 6 and I know temperature will effect battery condition but I must admit to being surprised. I always buy my batteries from a reliable supplier and have not had the problem before. I have purchased another make of CR1/3N cell to try later today.

I do not think it is the tag, but an issue with the cell.

At this stage I have not spoken to Eddie of Falconry Electronics.

I would be interested in hearing other peoples views and opinions on this. i considered Varta to be a decent manufacturer of batteries what makes do others use.

For anyone wondering why I have posted on this thread and not started a new one I was asked to add this by Justin himself, who I have chatted too about it in pm.

I've always thought that batteries are the weak link in telemetry systems.
I've never had trouble personally with any of my 1/3N based transmitters from Marshall and Merlin, but here you are with a TX20 (I'm not familiar with this particular transmitter) double beeping soon after startup.
It sounds to me like you may have bad batteries rather than a bad transmitter. The only way to know is to try different brands of battery.
I only use Sanyo (Japanese) 1/3N batteries nowadays and they cost me the equivalent of 5GBP apiece but I've never had a problem. The Renata (Swiss) batteries from Marshall have always done well for me, as well.

Just to illustrate my opinions of batteries, a few weeks back I was tracking my falcon and I was in for a long night, so just to be proactive, I decided to swap out the batteries in my receiver. As soon as I put the "new" batteries in, the low battery light started flashing. I'd bought a 24 pack of Duracells a few days before with years left on the expiry date and they were useless. I put the Energizers back in the Marshall FM4000 - the ones that came in it over a year back, no less, and continued tracking my bird!
I think you should try switching to another battery brand - a Japanese one, if possible.

I hope this helps,
Justin

Barry
29-11-2010, 01:21 PM
Just a couple of thoughts. First, I use renata batteries in PowerMax transmitters, Energiser in Scout and Micro, and Duracell in RT's. Never had any problems. I did however have some issues with Micro transmitters shutting down/turning themselves on and silly battery life. I had Marshall sort the transmitters which they did with no question - brilliant service as usual. I also changed from Renata batteries in the Micros for this year to Energiser and have had no problems so far. I'm not suggesting the issues were battery related - but they could have been responsible for some of the problems.

Second, Justin, any more to report on the new Marshall yagi design? I'm really keen to hear what the subtleties are with the new one on 173.

Cheers
Barry

Bones
29-11-2010, 03:05 PM
any more to report on the new Marshall yagi design? I'm really keen to hear what the subtleties are with the new one on 173.

Cheers
Barry

I'm also keen to hear of any info on the new 173 marshall system as looking to purchase it

thanks

Paul

SnakeHuts
29-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Justin,

Fair comments there, however the Varta battery is infact manufactured in Japan and isnt a cheap brand.

Will be trying another brand tomorrow.

Bones
29-11-2010, 07:04 PM
Justin,

Fair comments there, however the Varta battery is infact manufactured in Japan and isnt a cheap brand.

Will be trying another brand tomorrow.

As stated earlier it may be your tag as ive had no probs using the same battery as yourself in my rt+ and its still working fine with no double bleep

Paul

Dave G
29-11-2010, 07:44 PM
Justin did you ever get your hands on a tinyloc ??

CanadaManada
02-12-2010, 02:35 PM
Second, Justin, any more to report on the new Marshall yagi design? I'm really keen to hear what the subtleties are with the new one on 173.

Cheers
Barry

Barry,
I don't have the new 173 as I'm told it isn't rolling out until late January.
The 216 is performing perfectly for me. I haven't been able to break it and The compact elemets haven't snagged while walking through some very dense cover, and that has always been a worry with "full-sized" sets. I've been able to use it inside of my very small japanese van, and believe me, if i can use it inside that thing, it;ll work inside any British hawking rig!
I haven't been servicing this thread with enough pictures, methinks.
I'm going to be giving some of my other systems another solid go this season, just to fill in some missing bits of information.
It's going to be interesting.
Here's a pic of my hawking rig. 4WD and 650cc engine!
You can stop laughing, now!
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/box.jpg

Justin

Justin did you ever get your hands on a tinyloc ??
I thought I was this close to getting their GPS a couple weeks back when Calvin was all excited about getting one, but sadly I've been told there are none available.:roll:
I'm now considering their other set. They certainly are pricey, so I have to think carefully about this, as any discount I've tried to get hasn't amounted to much.
I'd love to find somebody who'd do a trade for one of my Marshalls.
Justin

Justin,

Fair comments there, however the Varta battery is infact manufactured in Japan and isnt a cheap brand.

Will be trying another brand tomorrow.

Hmm, I'd never heard of them before this so I did a bit of poking around. It seems to be owned by an American holding company named Spectrum Brands. They don't have a Japanese website link on the Varta battery homepage, so I guess they don't do their own manufacturing but rather outsource it over here somewhere.
The same holding company also owns Rayovac batteries, which I've never been a fan of.

I guess I should clarify that "made in Japan" and "Japanese batteries (brands)" are not exactly the same thing at times.

Justin

Bones
14-12-2010, 08:01 PM
I thought I was this close to getting their GPS a couple weeks back when Calvin was all excited about getting one, but sadly I've been told there are none available.:roll:
I'm now considering their other set. They certainly are pricey, so I have to think carefully about this, as any discount I've tried to get hasn't amounted to much.
I'd love to find somebody who'd do a trade for one of my Marshalls.
Justin





What marshall set up would you be interested in swopping/trading out of curiousity mate as may have a tinyloc to trade with tag as been offered a complete set

pm if easier

Paul

CanadaManada
15-12-2010, 04:13 AM
What marshall set up would you be interested in swopping/trading out of curiousity mate as may have a tinyloc to trade with tag as been offered a complete set

pm if easier

Paul

Another convert!!!;)
Haha. Thanks for your message, Paul.
PM me your phone number and I'll give you a call from SKYPE.
I may be able to do a new FM100 and tag.

Justin

09Spar09
15-12-2010, 07:17 PM
just seen on another forum a tinyloc for sale with 2 x f22 transmitters,1 x spar/merlin transmitter,1x car roof aireal mount and carry case all brand new for 575 pounds open to offers sounds cheap to me,if ur intrested al post a link up,its not mine just seen ur after one,atb bob

CanadaManada
15-12-2010, 08:31 PM
just seen on another forum a tinyloc for sale with 2 x f22 transmitters,1 x spar/merlin transmitter,1x car roof aireal mount and carry case all brand new for 575 pounds open to offers sounds cheap to me,if ur intrested al post a link up,its not mine just seen ur after one,atb bob

Hi Bob. Could you send me the link for that by PM?
I'd prefer to keep this thread more to the technical, practical, and testing sides of things.
For the realtively small number that have been sold, there seems to be quite a few of these Tinylocs that pop up in the second hand market. Cheap, too!!!

Justin

CanadaManada
05-01-2011, 11:57 AM
Marshall contacted me with a request to return my prototype HSL yagi in exchange for a production model along with the newly redesigned holster.
What was I gonna say, "No"?

I'd been very pleased with the HSL's performance so far this season and could find no faults in it. I never once considered a return to the original yagi and have had to use this one in anger on several occasions.

So, to start the changeover, I needed a #1 Phillips screwdriver. I use this shape becaus it's a low torque type and this lowers the risk of stripping out screws and worse still, the screw holes.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0440Small.jpg

Next I had to open up the yagi and find the two #1 Phillips screws holding the yagi onto the receiver. Easy stuff.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0441Small.jpg

Pull out the cable. This pulls straight back with a little twisting.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0443Small.jpg

Get the two screws out and remove the yagi.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0447Small.jpg

CanadaManada
05-01-2011, 12:01 PM
Give everything a spray with WD40 and wipe down with two rags to remove any dirt and residue.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0445Small.jpg

Put the new yagi in place and replace the screws, being careful not to overtighten.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0449Small.jpg

Fitted into the new holster, you can clearly see that the size is comparable to the 433Mhz sets. Remember, this is a 216Mhz set!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0450Small.jpg

Size comparison next to the Tracker Classic - which is the world's smallest falconry receiver. SMALL! The HSL yagi makes the Field Marshall into a pocket receiver!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0454Small.jpg

Barry
05-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Thanks Justin, that's excellent as a way to cool the nerves of anyone worried about the conversion. 'Simple' seems to be the only applicable adjective!

I'm still itching to see the 173 conversion, but will hold my cash until I see you test it! :yawinkle:

Barry

CanadaManada
05-01-2011, 12:08 PM
I have ordered a Merlin Xtenna, which is a boosted yagi antenna.
http://www.trackerradio.com/getdoc/152b47f9-a482-4939-9824-4a04cc3daa81/Xtenna-Professional

I've been learning about signal boosters and have wanted to test this for a while. I've ordered a full Merlin set - Merlin Ultima 5000, dog collar, and Xtenna. It wasn't cheap, but if it is what they say it is, well somebody's got to check it out and tell the story! I'll be trying it on the Merlin receiver as well as my other 216 receivers.

It should be here in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for reading.
Justin

09Spar09
05-01-2011, 12:18 PM
Give everything a spray with WD40 and wipe down with two rags to remove any dirt and residue.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0445Small.jpg

Put the new yagi in place and replace the screws, being careful not to overtighten.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0449Small.jpg

Fitted into the new holster, you can clearly see that the size is comparable to the 433Mhz sets. Remember, this is a 216Mhz set!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0450Small.jpg

Size comparison next to the Tracker Classic - which is the world's smallest falconry receiver. SMALL! The HSL yagi makes the Field Marshall into a pocket receiver!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0454Small.jpg


is the marshall set on 216 for sale justin,atb bob

StokeyBloke
05-01-2011, 12:55 PM
Has anyone hear anything about when the 173 is likely to become available ?
I have e mailed marshall uk but had no reply.
Like many others on 173 i am eager to see this modification.

CanadaManada
05-01-2011, 11:11 PM
is the marshall set on 216 for sale justin,atb bob

Sure, for about $2000USD. It's the Arab Gulf model FM4000. :box:

09Spar09
05-01-2011, 11:16 PM
Sure, for about $2000USD. It's the Arab Gulf model FM4000. :box:
good luck with the sale:lol:

CanadaManada
05-01-2011, 11:17 PM
Has anyone hear anything about when the 173 is likely to become available ?
I have e mailed marshall uk but had no reply.
Like many others on 173 i am eager to see this modification.

You've probably gotten no reply because they likely don't have a firm timetable. Developing new equipment takes more time and resources than most telemetry companies can muster. This is why we see so many older designs still floating around after 10-20+ years.
I think the 433 yagi is coming next, though I have no real idea when. They won't release it until they get it right, and they won't go around making announcements about anything in development as do some other telemetry companies.
This is one of those "You're gonna have to wait", type situations.

Justin

good luck with the sale:lol:

No man, I'm not selling this. It's my go-to receiver. I wouldn't trade it for anything the market today. As they say in Mehico, "It's dee besssst".

CanadaManada
07-01-2011, 01:59 PM
Somebody has asked me if the new antenna will fit on the old style FM5 or FM10 receiver. I'm not sure, but it looks like it should.
I'll have a fiddle with it tomorrow and Sunday and post pics. That'd be interesting if it works, because some folks could consider upgrading their antennas.

Justin

CanadaManada
25-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Well, it took me a while, but I've upgraded one of my Marshall FM5s with the new HSL yagi, making for a far more compact, better performing unit.

It's easy but there are a couple things to consider before embarking on this upgrade:
1. The screws are different. The screws that come pre-installed on the older FMs will not work on the new yagis. You need the new screws to complete the installation. Marshall will send them with the HSL yagi.
2. There are three screw holes on the old FM, and only two on the new yagi. Luckily (by design, perhaps) the bottom two screw holes match up perfectly with the new yagi. Don't panic when you replace three screws with two.
My grandfather was a famous aircraft flight engineer who regularly had a few bolts or screws left over anytime he rebuilt any type of engine. He called it "Lightening the load"!!!
Anyway, this upgrade is about as easy as it gets. This is done with the 216-219 yagi, but it will also be of interest for you 173Mhz guys who are looking forward to the debut of the new HSL 173 model. (No, I have no idea on a release date. Sorry)

So. AWAY WE GO!

Step 1:
You'll need the same #1 phillips screwdriver we used last time. Don't overtighten ANYTHING, ok? We start out with your average FM5 (or FM10 or Stealth, whichever you've got, this'll work).
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-01-25123725Small.jpg
Step 2:
Open up the yagi to full length. Locate the screws holding your yagi to the receiver. We can see the three clearly in this picture. Disconnect the cable by pulling it straight out, then loosen and remove these three screws, taking the yagi off the receiver. Throw this wherever you put your old yagis or better yet, give it to somebody who has a Luksander, as with a bit of fiddling, it will mount to the bottom of an MN5!
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-01-25123752Small.jpg
Step 3: Line up the holes on your new HSL yagi with the bottom two on the receiver. Remember to use the new screws, or you won't be able to get the yagi folded up afterward. I'd advise to put a drop of slow epoxy on the threads, or some loctite, just to make things as secure as possible. With some elbowgrease, you'll be able to get the screws out later if absolutely necessary. Tighten your screws but be careful not to strip anything out. I say go as tight as your finger and thumb will give you, and no more.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-01-25124006Small.jpg
Step 4: Hook up your cable again by pushing it straight into the connectors on the antenna and receiver. Congratulations. Now you've started thinking outside the box by breathing new life into an older system.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-01-25124344Small.jpg

I took mine outside just after this, and performance was flawless.
You can PM me with any questions you may have.

Many thanks - as always - for taking the time to read this.

Justin

Owl
25-01-2011, 02:40 PM
excellent justin.atb,tony :supz::supz::supz::supz:

CanadaManada
29-01-2011, 03:31 AM
Well, with winter in full swing, I'll be switching back to me 433Mhz system this week. I'll use the Marshall FM1000 and will be taking another look at my Merlin Ultima while I wait for the Xtenna powered yagi to arrive in February.
I really prefer the performance of 433Mhz in the flat country around here during the winter.
I'll post some pics of the two while I clean them up and prepare them for use.

Justin

Malcolm Edgar
29-01-2011, 08:04 PM
As always Justin Excellent!

Cheers
M

CanadaManada
16-02-2011, 01:11 PM
BIG NEWS! BIG NEWS!!!

I'm going to Utah this Friday to attend Sky Trials. I'll also make time to visit the Marshall and Merlin offices to chat about telemetry and pick up a few things for my customers.

Watch this space!

Justin

Ned
16-02-2011, 01:20 PM
Justin see if you can get any info about the new yaga on 173:yawinkle:
hope you enjoy sky trials. atb Ned.

CanadaManada
16-02-2011, 02:18 PM
Justin see if you can get any info about the new yaga on 173:yawinkle:
hope you enjoy sky trials. atb Ned.

I certainly will. If there's a prototype, I'll try to get a picture!

CanadaManada
20-02-2011, 10:28 PM
Having a great time over here in Utah.
The Sky Trials went really well yesterday with plenty of friendly folks on hand and a bunch of really high-calibre birds putting on a fantastic show for the crowd.
I'm heading up to Idaho to visit the guys at Tracker, hopefully on Tuesday, then back down to Utah to visit Marshall on Wednesday.
Fingers crossed it all comes together.

Justin

Little Joe
21-02-2011, 06:43 AM
Having a great time over here in Utah.
The Sky Trials went really well yesterday with plenty of friendly folks on hand and a bunch of really high-calibre birds putting on a fantastic show for the crowd.
I'm heading up to Idaho to visit the guys at Tracker, hopefully on Tuesday, then back down to Utah to visit Marshall on Wednesday.
Fingers crossed it all comes together.

Justin

I'm very jealous Justin! :)

I understand you met my mate Peter from Dubai? Hope you have a great time. These Sakers are food exchanging like mad and talking all the time... looking very good indeed.

All the best,
Jannes

SparsTheOne
23-02-2011, 12:23 PM
This is taken off facebook, pics of the new 173 yagi, look on the marshall website from april for aviaiblity and pricing.

cheers jase.

Also the new low profile yagi for the 433/434 marshall systems.

This looks very neat and compact indeed.

bigger picture,

Fenlands Rescue
23-02-2011, 07:17 PM
Jase,
can you just buy one of these new ariels for a FM1000 on 173MHZ and replace the existing one?
George

CanadaManada
25-02-2011, 12:55 PM
Jase,
can you just buy one of these new ariels for a FM1000 on 173MHZ and replace the existing one?
George

George,
The 173Mhz HSL yagi is not in production just yet, but I saw a prototype at Marshall this week. I'll post a pic for you tomorrow. You will indeed be able to buy it as an upgrade for your existing FM1000.
The 433/434Mhz HSL yagi will be available from March.
More stories to come, tomorrow!

Justin

Fenlands Rescue
25-02-2011, 01:27 PM
George,
The 173Mhz HSL yagi is not in production just yet, but I saw a prototype at Marshall this week. I'll post a pic for you tomorrow. You will indeed be able to buy it as an upgrade for your existing FM1000.
The 433/434Mhz HSL yagi will be available from March.
More stories to come, tomorrow!

Justin

Thanks Justin, look forward to it.
George

DJT 44Y
25-02-2011, 11:38 PM
Wish i had the brains of you tech guys. I'm afraid i see Telemetry as a means of getting a lost item back,WHEN it gets lost:oops:
I know you see it as much more,sorry.

TLDWB
25-02-2011, 11:54 PM
Wish i had the brains of you tech guys. I'm afraid i see Telemetry as a means of getting a lost item back,WHEN it gets lost:oops:
I know you see it as much more,sorry.

Doug, with the modern system it's pretty simple. Justin has done fantastic job of comparing these systems. It's about choosing the one your happy with and getting accustomed to it. Never leave home without it.

DJT 44Y
26-02-2011, 12:15 AM
Doug, with the modern system it's pretty simple. Justin has done fantastic job of comparing these systems. It's about choosing the one your happy with and getting accustomed to it. Never leave home without it.

Don't worry mate,when i have my Harris there's no way it's going anywhere without telemetry,whether it needs it or not:D

Don't worry mate,when i have my Harris there's no way it's going anywhere without telemetry,whether it needs it or not:D

And at Justins prices i may well get my set from him:D

Argee
27-02-2011, 09:47 AM
Don't worry mate,when i have my Harris there's no way it's going anywhere without telemetry,whether it needs it or not:D




And at Justins prices i may well get my set from him:D


dealt with him ...
very professional ...
even P.M,s to check on yurr purchase ..

CanadaManada
01-03-2011, 11:43 AM
Thanks Justin, look forward to it.
George

Here's a look at a prototype 173. The man holding it is the design engineer at Marshall.
The final product will actually be smaller than the one you see in this picture. It is still some months away, to my understanding.

They were very accomodating with me and showed me the entire production facility. They even let me take pics and gave me permission to post them here! Not only that but the top three men at Marshall: Dave Marshall, Robert Bagley, and Kevin Harcourt sat down with me for a 6 hour conversation about telemetry, where it is, and where it's headed. The things I heard there were well beyond anything I'd imagined for the next generation of telemetry. Some of those things I've been asked not to divulge, but the rest I'll tell you about over the next number of days.
I'm going to leave you with a teaser, though; next time, I'll show you the MOST POWERFUL falconry transmitter ever produced. The Marshall RT TURBO. It's so powerful I think I got radiation burns form handling it! :lol: Well, it may have been the sunshine off the snow that made my face red, but if I start growing wierd lumps on my skin, I'll know who to point the finger at! But, seriously, they are incredibly powerful transmitters - unlike anything I'd hoped would come along. "Dog transmitter STRONG!"
More about that, next time. Hey, I can't tell you everything at once, now, can I???
Here's the yagi you guys in the UK have been pining for!
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-02-22205137Medium.jpg

Thanks for looking.
Justin

Dave G
01-03-2011, 11:47 AM
Wow thats massive thought it was going to be tiny pocket size thats what folk want lol with great range of course ;).

CanadaManada
01-03-2011, 11:49 AM
And speaking of "Dog Transmitters" are any of you interested in seeing me do a shootout between 3-5 different dog telemetry collars?
I know the market isn't large for these things yet, but I think that if more falconers knew about them, they'd see them as useful pieces to add to their kits.

Justin

Ned
01-03-2011, 11:57 AM
Cheers Justin.

CanadaManada
01-03-2011, 03:30 PM
Wow thats massive thought it was going to be tiny pocket size thats what folk want lol with great range of course ;).

It'll be smaller in the final version, but you have to think of it in terms of the current 173, which looks like something you'd have seen on top of a house in the 70s/80s.

CanadaManada
02-03-2011, 03:43 PM
As of right now, the RT Turbo is only available on Marshall's Arab Gulf website but hopefully it will be made available to the rest of the world.
The picture below shows from top to bottom, the RT TURBO in 216Mhz, sporting the full length antenna for maximum output. they reccomend you use a backpack for this one. Next is the RT+ for size comparison, as all threee transmitters are based off the same 1/3N battery. On the bottom is the RT TURBO in 433Mhz. I'm picking up a female saker later this week and I plan to put these transmitters through their paces as the season heats up.
This transmitter comes with a LIFETIME WARRANTY!!! No word on pricing outside the Gulf just yet, but to my way of thinking, if you've gotta have it, you've gotta have it. And I just HAD TO HAVE IT!
I've asked Marshall for some specs on both the 216 and 433 versions. I'll pass them on to you as soon as I get them. What could I possibly put up against these transmitters for comparative purposes? Is there even another transmitter that comes close to this kind of output?
Tomorrow I'll start telling you about my trip to Utah (Marshall) and Idaho (Merlin).
http://marshallradio.com/en/gulf-region-falconry-falconry/gulf-region-falconry-transmitters/item/538-rt-standard-transmitter



http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/RTTURBOMedium.jpg

CanadaManada
04-03-2011, 06:52 AM
I managed to get the specs for the RT TURBO.
The Marshall system of measuring output is a measurement, in dB relative to the orignal RT Standard transmitter, which was released in 2000 (not to be confused with the current model of RT Standard.
For example:
RT+ is +5dB.
Powermax is +8dB.
The new RT TURBO is +17dB!!!

By further comparison, the Marshall dog collars, which are powerful enough to pick up over 100Km away in less than prime conditions, are +16dB over the Rt Standard. It should be noted that antenna type, antenna position relative to the dog, and the fact that the antenna is off the ground are all factors which contribute to range.

I'll explain what these numbers mean, in terms of relative range, next time.

Justin

I guess I'll start telling you about my trip to Utah and Idaho.

I'd been hoping to go over and see the Sky Trials in Utah, and I thought that it would be a good opportunity for me to get in to see Marshall and Merlin, as well, since I've spent so much time testing thir products, I thought it would be a good idea to meet the people and have a look around.

the trip almost didn't happen, as days before I was to leave I came down with swine flu. A few days in bed and some interesting medicine later, and I was, well upright at least. I finalised my travel itinerary and wobbled my way to the airport.
the flight to Tokyo was a breeze, because I slept the whole way but the flight from Tokyo to Los angeles was not so good. I was awake for most of the flight, and felt cold. Walking through LAx on arrival I was beet red in the face and beginning to think it may not have been such a good idea to have travelled so soon.
Immigration in Los Angeles was interesting, as the officer, a Mr Doyle, seemed to be more interested in having a conversation with a Canadian than issuing the stamp that would let me continue on to my connecting flight.
5 minutes or so later, on I continued down the catacombs under LAX, changing terminals.
Once on my connecting flight to Utah, I got an hour of badly needed sleep.
Flying over the Western Desert, I was taken by the stark beauty of all that lay below and slowly but surely, I began to feel better about the whole thing.

More on the 1st day - the longest day ever - next time.

Thanks for reading.
Justin

Phabio
04-03-2011, 07:55 PM
hi justin,
please send me a pm that i'm interesting to your marshall set

CanadaManada
07-03-2011, 11:44 AM
Day 1 cont.
Straight form the airport, I get a quick trip out to the flying ground where the Sky Trials will be held the following day. I'm a wreck. I've never been this jetlagged in my life, but somehow the clean air, sunshine, and the space all combine to keep me going. It's difficult to describe just how much open space there is over there, but suffice it to say, a bird would have to fly a long, loooong way to get anywhere. There are a handful of cows on the road, as somebody has gotten a permit to graze their cattle on public land. Seems like a good way to raise some almost-free beef. However, the problem is the cows will graze the natural grasses right down and they really tear up the ecosystem. I didn't know what I was looking at but the next day Joe Terry would tell me that when he was growing up, there were sage grouse out where we stood.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-02-18162522Medium.jpg
Wild RTs, a Ferruginous, antelope, and mule deer all make appearances on the drive back. So I make it back to the hotel on the first day. I'm booked into the more or less official meet hotel, and I have hopes of meeting as many people as possible - if only I can stay awake.
Walking in I'm lucky to meet Ricardo Vellarde and spend a few minutes talking about the book The Flying of Falcons.
There's a bunch of guys grouped around the couches in the lobby. I meet the Japanese couple, the Ishikawas, who have, like myself, flown from Japan. I excuse myself, saying I need a couple of hours rest, and head up to my room.
2 hours later I'm awake and excited. Back downstairs I find an empty lobby. I guess I should have gotten somebody's contact info!
Oh well, I figure I'll eat in the hotel room. There's a grocery store acrosss the street so I wander over, buy myself a whole roast chicken, 2L bottle of Doctor Pepper, and a bottle of Ibuprofen for the last vestiges of flu still fighting off the inevitable inside my head. Go big, or go home!
I get a shower, watch some TV, call home, and fall asleep again.
I've got an early morning coming on Day 2. Marshall's Robert Bagley is coming to pick myself and the Ishikawas up for the ride out to the Sky Trials.

Day 2, next time.

Justin

CanadaManada
09-03-2011, 12:27 PM
The Sterling Rangemax RM-20

Looks every bit the RT+ ripoff that the Tinyloc F22 is but I think they have at least one original idea implemeted here, and that is the high-visibility antenna.
I've been wrapping the bases of my transmitter antennas in yellow heatshrink for a few years now. A 10 cent fix. Black transmitters do a really good job of disappearing if you drop them into grass.

Lets look at the stats:

Programmable range - 173 Mhz to 434 Mhz (nothing new)

Smaller, Lighter, More Power and longer run time (yawn)

New advanced digital electronic design for greater reliability (How long has Marshall been doing this? Tinyloc also had it from their start.)

Suitable for Hawks and Falcons (Versatility is nice)

Body size - 27mm x 10mm (13.5mm cap) (see RT+ and tinyloc F22)

Battery size - Uses one #1/3n lithium battery (included) (see above)

Magnetic tap on tap off switching with safe off feature (See above)

Battery saver circuit (see above)

Fuel gauge (lets you know when to change the battery) (you mean like a double beep? Seen it.)

Low voltage battery monitor (RT+)

Supplied with removable tail mount spring as standard (this is nice for guys who like to switch, but see below. Nothing different from the RT+ and I think the Tinyloc includes both leg and tailmount caps in the box)

Leg mount cap available (see transmitter accessories)

Magnetic wand, order part No ST-MAG (I hope it ships with one included!!!)


Weight 7 Grams including batteries
Range Over 30 Miles direct line of sight To me, this seems a little underpowered for a 1/3N based transmitter. This may be the lowest power 1/3N transmitter on the market right now.
Operating Life Over 20 Days Not bad, but at only 30 miles of range, I'd expect a longer battery lifespan.
Antenna 215mm (8.5")
Guarantee 3 Years Nice touch

Looking at the picture, I'd guess they use three Marshall-style posts to mount the tailspring. I'd like to see the backside of this transmitter.

At least the battery isn't held in place by an elastic band/electrical tape/shrinkwrap. I do like the yellow antenna though aside from that, there appears to be a startling lack of innovation here. I'll think about getting one of these to test. It can't hurt, can it?

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/product_thumb.jpg

TiercelMan
09-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Hi Justin, Just a sudden thought ( these things happen at my age):roll: I've seen comments about the distance and capabilities of various makes of transmitters such as 30 or 40 miles line of sight. Taken that line of sight ie. at sea, is roughly 12 miles, and that radio waves can be deflected, how can these claims be substantuated unless from an elevated position such as a mountain or aircraft? Knowing little about this, I suspect you'll baffle me with science:D
Alistair

CanadaManada
11-03-2011, 01:04 PM
I've had some wonderful messages from forum members concerned for my safety in the aftermath of the earthquakes and subsequent tsunamis that have hit Japan today. I felt compelled to post this to put everyone's mind at ease.

I live in the very north of the country, on the island of Hokkaido, and not on the Pacific Ocean side, so I escaped the worst. We had a lot of shaking, but no damage around here.

There is a British falconer, Gary Dyer who is in the south of Japan, and I've been in touch with him. He and his family are fine. Phones are down all over the country at the moment.

Thank you for the kindness and concern.

Justin

SparsTheOne
11-03-2011, 01:10 PM
I've had some wonderful messages from forum members concerned for my safety in the aftermath of the earthquakes and subsequent tsunamis that have hit Japan today. I felt compelled to post this to put everyone's mind at ease.

I live in the very north of the country, on the island of Hokkaido, and not on the Pacific Ocean side, so I escaped the worst. We had a lot of shaking, but no damage around here.

There is a British falconer, Gary Dyer who is in the south of Japan, and I've been in touch with him. He and his family are fine. Phones are down all over the country at the moment.

Thank you for the kindness and concern.

Justin

I,m very happy to read this mate and i,m glad that your friends are safe too mate.

ATB jase.

RT Alison
11-03-2011, 01:35 PM
Interesting thread since I'm in the market for a better transmitter. Been using one of the LF-2's and tired of dealing with the rubber bands/shrink tubing. Looking to get an affordable tap on / tap off. Looking at the Scout and a Merlin.

Argee
11-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Tap on Tap off !!
nothin more than a Flea surely ...
Or a fridge magnet maybe ..
No ???

TLDWB
11-03-2011, 04:51 PM
Good hear your safe and well Justin

Tom

Rabadswompe
11-03-2011, 09:28 PM
Same here! Gald to read you've been safe!

Yann

Hawking
11-03-2011, 11:19 PM
Just came home with you on my mind with intent to check in on you, glad to see you are well. I know, i am a little out of touch with the world news....

CanadaManada
12-03-2011, 12:31 PM
I'm doing alright, everyone. Thanks for your concern. It's really touching.
My thoughts right now are with the brave folks down south working night and day to find survivors and also to stave off further potential disaster in the form of nuclear meltdown.
Gasoline prices have started moving as at least 20% of the country's refining capacity was lost yesterday. It'll be a bumpy ride, but I'm well provisioned and I tend to keep my ducks in a row.
Once the dust settles, I'll find a survivors' charity that needs the help and I'll put a telemetry system up for a charity raffle, or something like that - whatever the rules will allow. Gotta help, somehow.

Justin

Interesting thread since I'm in the market for a better transmitter. Been using one of the LF-2's and tired of dealing with the rubber bands/shrink tubing. Looking to get an affordable tap on / tap off. Looking at the Scout and a Merlin.

Hi there RT Alison.
Just to save you the surprise, all the Merlin transmitters use rubber bands/tape/heatshrink to hold the batteries in place. If that's what you're tired of, I think you'll be happy with a Scout on your RT. They can even laser engrave your name and phone number onto the transmitter lid for an extra $10 - not bad insurance on your bird.

CanadaManada
15-03-2011, 03:25 PM
Things are pretty dicey over here in Japan, right now.
Much commerce has stopped. Store shelves are thinning out, even way up here in the north, as panic buying/hoarding has set in. Mail is moving so I'm still able to ship telemetry to my customers, which is a relief.
Gasoline, however, has been rationed to 20L per visit (people just drive around the block till they fill up), and in the south, they are shutting off the power and internet, nightly.

Strange times I live in.

And so, to escape the stress, I've been manning a new saker falcon. She's a lovely bird exported here by Griff Griffiths of the Welsh Hawking Centre, bred out of a pair of exceptionally dark birds from Maher Al-Tajir. I'm hoping for big things from her, but that'll be her choice, in the end. She'll be this season's telemetry "test bench", as I was told by one telemetry maker that my tests, as informative as some may think them to be, have no meaning unless performed on a bird. (Translation - "Justin, what you've been doing is meaningless. Please stop.") The same person went on to tell me that "falconers shouldn't be testing telemetry, anyway". Well, we'll see about that, won't we? That horse is already out of the barn. I'll be shocked to find anything different than I did the 1st time around.

It may seem crass to some for me to not be glued to the television, but I'm a practical person, and somebody's got to get back to work, so here I am. More tomorrow. I just need to know that you guys are reading.

Justin

RT Alison
15-03-2011, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the heads up Justin and the best luck to you and the new bird. I've been following along with the developments in your location. Let's just hope you or the bird don't start glowing in the dark. That nuclear stuff scares the hell out of me. Hard to put that genie back in the bottle once it's loose.

CanadaManada
15-03-2011, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the heads up Justin and the best luck to you and the new bird. I've been following along with the developments in your location. Let's just hope you or the bird don't start glowing in the dark. That nuclear stuff scares the hell out of me. Hard to put that genie back in the bottle once it's loose.

You're welcome and thanks, Alison. Hopefully I'm far enough out of the prevailling winds not to have to worry about the bird starting to glow. All of my quail come from fallout areas, though, so that is actually a major concern, no matter what kind of spin I try to put on it.
I used to breed my own quail, back when I lived in a condo! Once I bought this house and land, I, stopped... how stupid is that?

Malcolm Edgar
15-03-2011, 05:53 PM
Keep safe Justin - we don't want to lose you just yet.

M

Kestrel UA
16-03-2011, 10:48 AM
Though I am new to this forum, I was reading this thread with passion all the time. I am happy to know that the author was not impacted and safe.
all the best to you and your new bird.

Gyrcel
16-03-2011, 02:43 PM
Justin,

Japan is a great Nation that has rebuilt from the ashes before and will do it again. Our thoughts are with all who have lost loved ones.
We're all glad to hear you are safe for now. But I'm sure all on the forum are wondering if there is anything we can do to help.

Michael Garcia

CanadaManada
17-03-2011, 03:02 AM
Justin,

Japan is a great Nation that has rebuilt from the ashes before and will do it again. Our thoughts are with all who have lost loved ones.
We're all glad to hear you are safe for now. But I'm sure all on the forum are wondering if there is anything we can do to help.

Michael Garcia

Thanks very much for the kind words, everyone. The country certainly has the ability to bounce back. Confindence is eroding at the moment, however, and people need a lot more help than they are willing to admit.

If folks would like to donate money to the Japanese Red Cross, which certainly does valuable work and needs all the support it can get right now, they can go to https://www.paypal.com or https://www.paypal.co.uk/uk and scroll donw until they see the Japan donation button.
Every small donation will help.
Thank you.
I'll be back with some telemetry talk in a little bit.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/HelpJapan.jpg

Little Joe
17-03-2011, 10:54 AM
Glad you're okay mate. And I have to agree with Michael, if anyone can bounce back from such a disaster and come out stronger, its the Japanese.

Would like to see some photo's of that Saker of yours. Ours are still exchanging food and making small talk all day long, expecting eggs any day! :o

All the best,
Jannes

CanadaManada
18-03-2011, 04:43 AM
I've just sat down and had a good look at these collars and a couple of things stick out in my mind as worthy of mention.
1st, the Marshall uses a tap on/ tap off magnetic switch, much like some of our transmitters.
The Tracker Strike collar uses a removable magnet switch.
The Supra Lite collars have two antennas and seem made for smaller dogs than the above two.
The Marshall uses 2 regular AA batteries, whereas the others use 3v lithium batteries.
I'll spend this evening going over the manuals for these collars, and I'll pick this up again.
I'll get back to my Utah story, too.
Until then, here's the lineup picture, taken in fresh, yet melting snow.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DogCollarsLarge.jpg

CanadaManada
18-03-2011, 08:37 AM
Our bird telemetry test subject for the next while.
She decided a Tait #19 hood was too small today...
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/SAKER2011-03-18125639Medium.jpg

CanadaManada
11-04-2011, 02:27 PM
Hi all. I'm "back".
I've had a lot on my plate since the earthquake hit Japan.
I'm happy to say that things seem to be levelling off and spring has come at last.
I appreciate the patience that my readers have shown in my relative absence and I'm glad to be back in the saddle.
I've learned a lot about telemetry this past couple months, and I'm going to share it with you, very soon.

Justin

Pavel Yakimov
19-04-2011, 08:53 PM
Hi, Jason! How are you after the hit, mate? Any damages? People sharing awful stories.
Hope you are well!

Regards

CanadaManada
03-05-2011, 02:54 PM
The digital FM10 I'd mentioned is here: http://falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=107255

Have a look!

Harriot01
03-05-2011, 03:52 PM
The remainder of today's pics:
I am very interested in this post as i have been thinking of buying a new system some time soon , at the minute i am using the good old customs electronics system , i have over the years bought both a luksanders system and a mashals ,but couldn't get on with either and have always gone back to my old customs set after a season , i know the customs is big and bulky but its never let me down , i would be interested to here from other falconers on there views , thanks

CanadaManada
03-05-2011, 04:00 PM
I am very interested in this post as i have been thinking of buying a new system some time soon , at the minute i am using the good old customs electronics system , i have over the years bought both a luksanders system and a mashals ,but couldn't get on with either and have always gone back to my old customs set after a season , i know the customs is big and bulky but its never let me down , i would be interested to here from other falconers on there views , thanks

Hi there.
Any chance we could see your telemetry set?

Harriot01
03-05-2011, 04:15 PM
Hi mate , i am new on here and for some reason don't seem tom have the options to post a new thread or pictures at the minute , it is basically a two peice set , with the receiver and ariel seperate , i beleive they are still being made or at least i know they are still being serviced as i sent my unit off to the us two seasons ago , for a repair , try there web site , just google customs electronics telemetry and im sure you will find the link ,hope this helps , also if anyone can help with the problems i am having with posting new threads please give me a shout , thank you

OutFlying
03-05-2011, 06:36 PM
Blue box ? RB 4

Harriot01
04-05-2011, 06:50 PM
Blue box ? RB 4
Thats the one mate , i've had it years and its never let me down , have got/used one in the past ? what did you think about them ?

OutFlying
04-05-2011, 07:38 PM
Thats the one mate , i've had it years and its never let me down , have got/used one in the past ? what did you think about them ?

The Marshall set is a big step fonward and a lot easier to use in the field.

Jim

CountryGuy
24-05-2011, 11:28 AM
Really interesting read, nice pics too

SakerJack
28-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Great thread, great photos, great job!

RKumetz
03-06-2011, 03:52 PM
Hi Justin,
I thought you might be interested to see that I have started a survey of falconers' opinions toward telemetry. I am also soliciting their opinions of what telemetry features and specifications they would like to see tested in a side by side test using recognized testing procedures. Please take the survey yourself and pass the word. The more responses we get more our results will be an accurate cross section of the falconry community.

Thanks.
Ron

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FalconryTelemetrySurvey2011

Aman
11-06-2011, 05:32 PM
Thanks for taking the time to share all of this, and please keep it coming.
Regards
Alec

CanadaManada
13-06-2011, 02:53 AM
Thanks for taking the time to share all of this, and please keep it coming.
Regards
Alec

Thank YOU Alec, for taking the time to read and comment.

Justin

CanadaManada
17-06-2011, 02:48 PM
I've retrofitted my 433/434 set with the new HSL yagi.
Please check out the thread:
http://falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1706620#post1706620

More Utah storytellin' to come.

Justin Leyte

BrianD
17-06-2011, 10:43 PM
Ok Justin, let's get this ball rolling. I need to buy me a new transmitter within the next 2 weeks. :razz:

Hawking
17-06-2011, 11:06 PM
Just wanted to say mention that I am enjoying your thread Justin. I don't post a lot but I do read. This is one of a few threads actually worth reading on here anymore. My hats off to you for your effort. :supz:

CanadaManada
19-06-2011, 08:31 AM
Ok Justin, let's get this ball rolling. I need to buy me a new transmitter within the next 2 weeks. :razz:

Well, I think everyone on here knows what I think is the best ransmitter.

Just wanted to say mention that I am enjoying your thread Justin. I don't post a lot but I do read. This is one of a few threads actually worth reading on here anymore. My hats off to you for your effort. :supz:

Hi Mike. I haven't seen you on here for a while and assumed you'd found greener pastures. I'm glad to see you've stuck around, and I'm always glad when another Canadian is reading my stuff. Lots more to come. In some ways, after almost two years in this thread, I feel like I still have so much more to learn and so many more systems to test.

Justin Leyte

CanadaManada
27-06-2011, 03:59 PM
Been a busy week over here. Lots of telemtry systems passing through on their way out of the country and I've been gearing up for what may be the most interesting telemetry test yet - the Marshall RT TURBO 433Mhz backpacked on an imprint female lanner.
She's bred by me and is a second clutch bird. I'd originally planned her as a parent-reared bird but the lanneret turned on her and a sibling. I got to this one in time and she was bleeding from her back, but the other eyass was nowhere to be found when I went in.
Her mother flew at 910g and was a complete joy in every respect. We hope to have her on the wing as soon as she wants to go. Cobus is going to try and help me with her by email. Once she fills out a bit, she'll get her own thread.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-06-25102325.jpg

I'm very excited as it will be my first attempt at tame hacking, as well as my first imprint falcon.
I've been considering adding a Marshall Micro UHF to the tail, just to keep things safe. I've never flown falcons with only one transmitter so I can't see any reason to start now.

Next time I'll get back to our Utah saga.

BrianD
02-07-2011, 01:24 AM
Thanks for the update Justin. Very informative and nice pics too.

What is your opinion about the Scout? I know it does not have the power of the rt plus but I like the extra long run time.

Lee C
02-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Looks like you are having too much fun there working hard!! fascinating thread you got going here!!!
Have loved following the test.
Great !!!!
Regards
Lee C

CanadaManada
06-07-2011, 03:05 PM
Looks like you are having too much fun there working hard!! fascinating thread you got going here!!!
Have loved following the test.
Great !!!!
Regards
Lee C

More to come tomorrow, Lee. I'm glad to hear you're enjoying this.

Justin

PS: I'm also glad to hear that your FM100 arrived safe and sound. Let me know if you have any questions, ok? I'm always available by email.

Titaioi
02-09-2011, 10:57 AM
sorry if I bothered.!
I come from Vietnam and I need a radio device for birds Peregrine but I do not know about this radio equipment would you help me.
my email: dangkhoa1042004@yahoo.com
Thanks for reading! I'm waiting for your help!
I really need radio for birds Peregrine falcon. So I need you to advise me, as well as its price. Thanks for the help

Barry
07-12-2011, 05:30 PM
Any developments in the world of telemetry Justin? Maybe you can throw light on the rumours of Marshall withdrawing 173. That would tempt me to another manufacturer where R&D would be continued. However, if the rumours are false, maybe an update on the compact yagi on 173. Please enlighten us with your insiders view.
Cheers.
Barry.

CanadaManada
08-12-2011, 03:17 AM
Hi Barry.
I'm here. I needed a break from the ordeal of my imprint lanner to recharge my batteries, so to speak. Actually, I'm gearing up my saker to start this week. A very late start, but a start it is.
I'll be running the new RT TURBO transmitter in 433 and possibly a micro 433 on her as well.
I was very impressed with 433 RT UHF this past summer which I ran 24/7 on the hacked lanner. I had switched over from the 216 powermax and RT+ after a few weeks. With the 433 I was able to check the signal at home, inside my house, without even opening the yagi, on a bird a couple miles away. From the driveway, I was able to tell if she was on one of two roosts. Sadly she migrated and by the time I caught on, she and the signal were already over the mountains. She had a 24 hour headstart on me and I never caught up to her. She's wearing this, with my name and phone number on it, so if she's found before spring, I may hear something.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-10-26100636.jpg

As for the rumours, well yes, I've heard them too, though I can't say as I believe Marshall would completely withdraw from the 173 market. I don't know anything that you don't know but I've surmised that the absence of the new 173 yagi points to a shift in focus toward the 433/434 stuff for Europe/UK. Thinking from a manufacturing/shipping point of view, it would make sense. This is very much off the top of my head, so don't quote me, ok?

I also think that their R&D focus, may be shifted to more, err... exciting and modern telemetry... mayyybe... err I'll stop talking now... wait, what's that black helicopter doing overhead?

I have a couple questions though, Barry. Why wouldn't you switch over to 433 when the transmitters available are powerful enough that even in adverse conditions, they now outperform 173? Aslo, which other manufacturers are you thinking would continue on with R&D on 173? Good to hear from you.

CanadaManada
20-12-2011, 02:29 PM
So here we go. I'll be flying my gyr/lanner this season, afterall.
Weather has not been at all co-operative. We've gotten 6 feet of snow in the last 10 days.
I'm going to continue on with using 433/434Mhz, as I did in the summer with the hack bird. I'm impressed with the RT-type transmitters in 433. I believe that there is nothing out there today that can compete with the RT TURBO and the RT UHF in 433. I intend on proving that to myself, putting my full trust in them with Hemi, my favorite bird.
Now, let me tell you about Hemi. He's never gone up much in his three years, but one hopes that with the kite, some cold weather, and a nice high weight, we'll be able to get something going. He was lost last year overnight and I tracked him down with the new HSL to his RT+ on 216Mhz through the woods. I'm not afraid of high weights with a bird festooned with antennas like Sputnik. Pigeons are in short supply and due to recent legal changes, they're even harder to ship around the country of Japan, but I've got a few sourced.
My first experiences with the 433 was with the UHF Scout - a transmitter which I felt performed well but suffered in the snow/rain when out at the extreme edge of its range and also seemed to be lacking the juice when tracking through town. That being said, the UHF Scout was never meant to be a longwing's primary transmitter. I certainly feel it's a good backup transmitter on the leg.

This year I've been looking at the RT UHF and RT TURBO to see if 433/434 really are viable all-weather longwing frequencies. They certainly seem to have the firepower. Hemi has never had a backpack on, and he doesn't like to be touched. I'll do my best to get him suited up, but I'm not expecting miracles. For now he's got the TURBO on the tail. I'd like to have the TURBO on his back and the RT UHF on his tail. We'll see if I can get it installed on my own (the nearest longwinger is about 1000Km away).

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-12-20133802.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/2011-12-20135731.jpg

PS: That hood fits real nice, right? That's a 10GBP hood from Griff at the Welsh Hawking Centre http://www.barrywales.co.uk/hawkingcentre/ - the best hood I've ever owned and Hemi sure likes it. Also the most durable - after three years, you can't see a scratch on the eye patches. Highly recommended.

Falcon Slave
30-12-2011, 09:27 PM
As for the rumours, well yes, I've heard them too, though I can't say as I believe Marshall would completely withdraw from the 173 market. I don't know anything that you don't know but I've surmised that the absence of the new 173 yagi points to a shift in focus toward the 433/434 stuff for Europe/UK.

I have a couple questions though, Barry. Why wouldn't you switch over to 433 when the transmitters available are powerful enough that even in adverse conditions, they now outperform 173?

Justin,

Like Barry I was waiting for the new 173 HSL yagi. I was told recently by Marshall and others that this will not now appear and that future research will be 216+ and 433/4 only. Maybe I misunderstood but that's what I heard.

Having recently lost a micro 173 (falcon on cock pheasant, didn't realise until back at car that micro was not on him, then no signal) I am using an old Powermax (antenna cut) with RT+ and deciding whether to buy new 173 transmitter or switch wholesale to 433/4.

Everything I've ever read says that the much less diffraction of 433 would severely limit performance. Earlier in this superb thread you said (I paraphrase) 173 best in hills, snow, forest and 433 for open spaces and fair weather. Also you said that with a bird on the ground the signal grounds out on a leg-mounted 433 ao 'absolutely' it must be back and/or tail.

Does this represent your latest view, and so qualifies your latest comments to Barry, or have things changed e.g. with the RT Turbo.

I am a leg and tail man (so to speak) and expect to fly in fields with some woodland and on open hill/moor. I guess I'd love someone to say 'Go 433 it's the best all-rounder' but remain suspicious. One time this year my GP tiercel was at the bottom of a ditch beside a small wood having hit then chased a pheasant. I knew roughly where he would be but even at only half-a-mile away the 173 signal was weak and intermittent. I wondered then what 433 would be like - possibly silent?

Regards,
Steve

TomOlivia
31-12-2011, 09:15 AM
sorry if I bothered.!
I come from Vietnam and I need a radio device for birds Peregrine but I do not know about this radio equipment would you help me.
my email: dangkhoa1042004@yahoo.com
Thanks for reading! I'm waiting for your help!
I really need radio for birds Peregrine falcon. So I need you to advise me, as well as its price. Thanks for the help

Did you ever get the bio-track system I sent you?

CanadaManada
01-01-2012, 02:35 AM
As for the rumours, well yes, I've heard them too, though I can't say as I believe Marshall would completely withdraw from the 173 market. I don't know anything that you don't know but I've surmised that the absence of the new 173 yagi points to a shift in focus toward the 433/434 stuff for Europe/UK.

I have a couple questions though, Barry. Why wouldn't you switch over to 433 when the transmitters available are powerful enough that even in adverse conditions, they now outperform 173?

Justin,

Like Barry I was waiting for the new 173 HSL yagi. I was told recently by Marshall and others that this will not now appear and that future research will be 216+ and 433/4 only. Maybe I misunderstood but that's what I heard.

Having recently lost a micro 173 (falcon on cock pheasant, didn't realise until back at car that micro was not on him, then no signal) I am using an old Powermax (antenna cut) with RT+ and deciding whether to buy new 173 transmitter or switch wholesale to 433/4.

Everything I've ever read says that the much less diffraction of 433 would severely limit performance. Earlier in this superb thread you said (I paraphrase) 173 best in hills, snow, forest and 433 for open spaces and fair weather. Also you said that with a bird on the ground the signal grounds out on a leg-mounted 433 ao 'absolutely' it must be back and/or tail.

Does this represent your latest view, and so qualifies your latest comments to Barry, or have things changed e.g. with the RT Turbo.

I am a leg and tail man (so to speak) and expect to fly in fields with some woodland and on open hill/moor. I guess I'd love someone to say 'Go 433 it's the best all-rounder' but remain suspicious. One time this year my GP tiercel was at the bottom of a ditch beside a small wood having hit then chased a pheasant. I knew roughly where he would be but even at only half-a-mile away the 173 signal was weak and intermittent. I wondered then what 433 would be like - possibly silent?

Regards,
Steve

Hi Steve and Happy New Year to you.
For me, the best all arounder is still 216 or even moreso, 217Mhz.
That said, the 433Mhz RT TURBO is really changing my perceptions.
That bird you had trouble getting a signal from at 1/2 mile, I'd imagine there were some other factors at work, such as leg transmitter grounded, cut antenna, battery, wet ground or leaves, or a combination of these? Receiver technology is still important, too.
My telemetry kits are built form the ground up to give me the best possible chance of finding my birds before something else does, or before they leave the area entirely.
I've been a 216/217 guy for a long time now. It's the best balance, but there is a tradeoff in antenna size. The 433 impressed in open space when I was flying with the UHF Scout last winter but the signal didn't impress if anything was between me and the bird - still workable, mind you. So I'd say that my earliest perceptions were formed using the weakest 433 transmitter of the lot. I can only tell you what I see, so I had to go by that. I learn more as I go along, and the reason I've left this thread open for as long as I have is so that we can continually add to the knowledge base.
Last summer, the RT UHF really impressed me while hacking. I still had good signal from home, even if she was roosting out of line of sight on the hill or tooling around in the afternoons. I was always able to stay in touch with her until she presumably migrated and got behind the mountains.
Blaming myself for 1, not flying her with two transmitters (small percentage that her transmitter failed the day she left, but a very low percentage chance) and 2, not flying her with the RT TURBO for the sake of saving a few bucks on batteries (I had Marshall program the RT UHF with a very slow beep "permanent Apollo 13 mode") will always nag on my mind. So far, with the RT TURBO this winter, I'm astonished at the power. Keep in mind I don't impress easily.
Your question is regarding 173 VS 433, though and I feel that the RT UHF and the RT TURBO transmitters are right up there and with the TURBO, well beyond anything on the market that I've seen.
Even a backpack mount 173 is going to ground out in some setups - not so the 433. Do you know anyone with a Marshall 433/434 setup that you could get out and see?
To close this up for today, as I feel my New Years self-inflicted headache is causing me to ramble, I'd say "follow the technology". Easily said, I know, but I've never heard anyone say "I wish I hadn't switched to 433/434". That says something. Sticking with 173, it appears you'll either be unfolding giant Luksander TV aerials forever or letting companies like Merlin lie to you (Tracker Maxima Complete vs Merlin Ultima).
I myself am very close to switching to a 433/434 setup, relegating the others to backup status and demonstations. I've never tested the UHF Micro but I'll be getting one.

I'm always glad when the questions show that somebody actually reads this stuff! Thank you for that.

Almestrada
01-01-2012, 04:34 AM
Justin, Have you ever tried the Luksander MNS 4000?
I bought a secondhand Marshall 173 Stealth (the older larger stealth model) early in 2011 and unfortunately using it resulted in the death of my male gyr/pere a few weeks ago which I lost in mist. I just couldn't get a consistent signal (he was wearing a tail-mounted Scout on 173.405 which unfortunately none of my acquaintances 173.2 receivers were capable of picking up). On the third day (after 3 freezing nights) I realised he was moving or had moved south but still the signal was intermittent an I could not get a fix on it. On the fourth day I got info through the local police that my bird was in a barn at a farm a few miles away. . .I raced to pick him up, administering emergency liquid nutrition at the scene even before taking him home (as he was clearly very low), then spent the next 15 hours trying to save his life but to no avail as he passed away at 3.45a.m. I was and remain gutted at his loss which would have preyed on my mind for ages had I not fortunately been contacted by the hospital 2 days later to ask if I wanted to take up a cancellation opportunity for the hernia operation I was awaiting, which I accepted. . .the pain and discomfort after the op being thereafter at the forefront of my consciousness. It was a few days later before I became aware (whilst helping a friend to find a transmitter that he thought had fallen off his hawk) that the cable connection between the yagi and receiver on my Stealth was what was at fault. . .one minute it would be picking up the signal and then the next there was nothing and no amount of pressing the conections home would ensure a continuous signal. I have been told that this is a fairly regular problem with the SMB connections on Marshall equipment and I now have a bit of a phobia about the Marshall, so much so that I think I am likely to stick with Luksander in the future.

CanadaManada
01-01-2012, 11:20 AM
Justin, Have you ever tried the Luksander MNS 4000?
I bought a secondhand Marshall 173 Stealth (the older larger stealth model) early in 2011 and unfortunately using it resulted in the death of my male gyr/pere a few weeks ago which I lost in mist. I just couldn't get a consistent signal (he was wearing a tail-mounted Scout on 173.405 which unfortunately none of my acquaintances 173.2 receivers were capable of picking up). On the third day (after 3 freezing nights) I realised he was moving or had moved south but still the signal was intermittent an I could not get a fix on it. On the fourth day I got info through the local police that my bird was in a barn at a farm a few miles away. . .I raced to pick him up, administering emergency liquid nutrition at the scene even before taking him home (as he was clearly very low), then spent the next 15 hours trying to save his life but to no avail as he passed away at 3.45a.m. I was and remain gutted at his loss which would have preyed on my mind for ages had I not fortunately been contacted by the hospital 2 days later to ask if I wanted to take up a cancellation opportunity for the hernia operation I was awaiting, which I accepted. . .the pain and discomfort after the op being thereafter at the forefront of my consciousness. It was a few days later before I became aware (whilst helping a friend to find a transmitter that he thought had fallen off his hawk) that the cable connection between the yagi and receiver on my Stealth was what was at fault. . .one minute it would be picking up the signal and then the next there was nothing and no amount of pressing the conections home would ensure a continuous signal. I have been told that this is a fairly regular problem with the SMB connections on Marshall equipment and I now have a bit of a phobia about the Marshall, so much so that I think I am likely to stick with Luksander in the future.

I have had three Luksander MNS units here. It's not much in the face of a new Marshall or the Comspec R400, to be honest. About equal to the older Field Marshalls - I don't care what they claim on paper.
Marshall's connector I trust 100% because my thinking is this - I have to check everything myself. Every couple weeks I turn the cable a half turn left and right, then I pull the cable off and put it back on. I don't know that it makes a difference but I've never had a failure.
It's totally heartbreaking but you lost your bird on used equipment. Is the transmitter also a used unit? I always advise anyone buying a used set to have it checked out thoroughly by the maker. There is no way for most of you to know if there is something wrong with the set you buy second hand.
Believe me when I tell you this, the Stealth is as good as anything out there. I put one against a new FM4000 last spring and in my eyes, they are equally good and the louder speakers on the Stealth, along with the indexed tuning knob make the Stealth better in those respects. My advice is send that Stealth to Marshal direct, to me, or to Marshall USA and have it checked. Furthermore, you may want to consider a more powerful transmitter than the Scout, which is underpowered for use on a large falcon.

I hope this helps and I hope you're soon back in the field, feeling fine.

Almestrada
01-01-2012, 11:02 PM
Hi Justin,
Are we talking about the same stealth model (mine is the 'hard edged' angular shape. . .I think you sold one of the same shape a few months ago)? I do know that you had a Luksander MNS 40. . . as I have the very one now (the one you sold to 'Goodfooter' in 2010). . .I am not sure why you seem so unimpressed with L.L. Their latest model the MNS 4000 is an improvement again (I have one on 216-219). I note that you seem quite impressed with the performance of the Comspec 400 which looked to me like a Luksander rip-off and which I had thought (possibly mistakenly) would have performed less favourably.
I am going to have the Stealth repaired and (. . .respecting your comments. . .) I shall perhaps persevere with it (but it did kill my gyr/pere as far as I am concerned and I know that I am far from the first person to have had problems with the SMB connection).

The Scout transmitter was virtually new and appears to be working perfectly. . . when the signal was being picked up by the receiver it was quite strong. I do have a 173 Powermax also but I doubt if it would have made any difference in this case as when the yagi/receiver connection was breaking down the strength of the transmitter signal became irrelevant.

Do you think it is feasible to fit one of the new compact Marshall 173 yagis to my model of Stealth?

Good morning!
Yes, the Stealth I'm talking about is the angular one. One running in 100% tiptop condition is hard to beat, IMHO, and would most certainly outperform the MNS.
Every model in the Luksander MNS series has roughly the same performance aside from number of frequencies/channels - this is in the field - not on paper. Side by side, new models stack up the same. I've actually got one in the room here now missing a tuning knob that came off out in the field. Most folks forget that these things are primarily designed as dog collar receivers for hound hunters. If you scan through some of those forums, you'll find a lot more people that have left Luksander behind.

As for the Comspec, it does beat the snot out of the Luksander. If you ever get a peek inside, the Luksanders seem to have been built by a kid in hobby class whereas the Comspec has a modern construction. Brian Sullivan on the forum here uses one and in America, they are sold as Quicktrack receivers in the dog market.
Put simply, I'd never choose a Luksander over the Comspec. Incidentally, the Comspec is sold in the UK by Falconry Electronics under the Merlin brandname (no claims yet that the Merlin unit is unique to them and better performing than those that come from the manufacturer). It is a very very good unit and if you can order direct from Comspec instead of paying extra for the Merlin decal on the case, it is well worth it.

It looks as though you can rule out your Scout as being the problem. When you send your receiver in for servicing, it is always a good idea to send the transmitters, too. I'd be flying with the Powermax (no cutting the antenna) if I were you.

The Stealth has unique antenna mounts and it appeared to me at least that the antennas could not be transferred over without some sort of adaptor. I'd thought that a nice new antenna would certainly spice them up. Incidentally, the older Stealth models (not the 173s) can be sold into the Arab market for $2000-$3000 - a handful of falconers there like them that much.

Happy New Year to you, too.

Almestrada
02-01-2012, 01:04 AM
Happy New Year!

Itchy
02-01-2012, 01:43 AM
My female RT got spooked last year whilst lamping and flew into a wood eventually settling 40ft up in a beech tree. After an hour of recall I decided to go home and get a rabbit carcass. I was getting a signal from the 434 RT UHF in my front room - nearly 8 miles in a straight line across flat coastal plain with a small town in between me and the bird. An amazing system which I've found works very well in hilly terrain too.

CanadaManada
02-01-2012, 03:32 AM
My female RT got spooked last year whilst lamping and flew into a wood eventually settling 40ft up in a beech tree. After an hour of recall I decided to go home and get a rabbit carcass. I was getting a signal from the 434 RT UHF in my front room - nearly 8 miles in a straight line across flat coastal plain with a small town in between me and the bird. An amazing system which I've found works very well in hilly terrain too.

Much like myself, you certainly seem satisfied with your UHF system.

Almestrada
02-01-2012, 02:06 PM
Before your reply I had been planning to sell the Stealth after repair; if so I now think it'll be to the Arab market. . . but I'm looking for $4000 LOL (just kidding). Now I don't know what to do. . .
What different frequencies of early Stealth is the Arab market likely to offer $2000-3000 for?

I couldn't say for sure other than it is definitely not 173. I don't know anyone in any country other than the UK using that.

HallBeck
02-01-2012, 02:23 PM
Hi Justin.

I have the new 434 from Marshall - teamed with a Scout transmitter. When i bought the system the Scout was the only tag available.

A couple of questions if i may.

Firstly have you ever done a comparison test between Marshall systems on the different frequencies? I am really pleased with my 434 and often get signals where i think I won't - but I always wonder if that signal would be even stronger with a different frequency.

Secondly - is the new 434 RT transmitter a big step up from my Scout? I fly a Steppe Eagle - and whilst she never goes that far - she certainly could if she wanted to!

Just like me, I had the Scout first.
I've run everything alongside eachother. #1 I've gotta know what I'm selling and #2 I've gotta know what's best to use on my birds.
With the new UHF RT type transmitters, I'm getting roughly the same out of the RT UHF for instance that I'd get out of a Powermax on 216, and the RT TURBO makes my eyebrows fall out.

Sandy Rollo
02-01-2012, 04:02 PM
Justin, Have you ever tried the Luksander MNS 4000?
I bought a secondhand Marshall 173 Stealth (the older larger stealth model) early in 2011 and unfortunately using it resulted in the death of my male gyr/pere a few weeks ago which I lost in mist. I just couldn't get a consistent signal (he was wearing a tail-mounted Scout on 173.405 which unfortunately none of my acquaintances 173.2 receivers were capable of picking up). On the third day (after 3 freezing nights) I realised he was moving or had moved south but still the signal was intermittent an I could not get a fix on it. On the fourth day I got info through the local police that my bird was in a barn at a farm a few miles away. . .I raced to pick him up, administering emergency liquid nutrition at the scene even before taking him home (as he was clearly very low), then spent the next 15 hours trying to save his life but to no avail as he passed away at 3.45a.m. I was and remain gutted at his loss which would have preyed on my mind for ages had I not fortunately been contacted by the hospital 2 days later to ask if I wanted to take up a cancellation opportunity for the hernia operation I was awaiting, which I accepted. . .the pain and discomfort after the op being thereafter at the forefront of my consciousness. It was a few days later before I became aware (whilst helping a friend to find a transmitter that he thought had fallen off his hawk) that the cable connection between the yagi and receiver on my Stealth was what was at fault. . .one minute it would be picking up the signal and then the next there was nothing and no amount of pressing the conections home would ensure a continuous signal. I have been told that this is a fairly regular problem with the SMB connections on Marshall equipment and I now have a bit of a phobia about the Marshall, so much so that I think I am likely to stick with Luksander in the future.

How can you blame marshall? for killing your falcon?
Why would you you fly any falcon in scotland let alone gyr hybrid wearing a scout? its designed to work with shortwings and has a better battery life and less reange,Powermax and RT plus are what you need
You flew a falcon in low condition for the time off year sending him out in mist conditions with a candle on his tail im sorry but any falcon i fly will survive more than 3 days without food and wont die of starvation
Most falconers flying gyr hybrids or peregrines would have 2 transmitters on each time they fly
You say have another reciever on 216 why didnt u put a 216 transmitter on your falcon aswell or why not buy a backup reciever on 173?instead off a 216?
The stealth is still one off the best recieversout there but im sorry i cant accept a poor connection on the yagi as an excuse thats down to maintainance and down to you

Almestrada
02-01-2012, 07:00 PM
'S-O-R-T-E-D'!!!

Someone should moderate out the previous post. . .just trying to cause trouble AGAIN

Sandy Rollo
02-01-2012, 07:30 PM
'S-O-R-T-E-D'!!!

Someone should moderate out the previous post. . .just trying to cause trouble AGAIN

No just stating the obvious and if you would listen to good advise then maybe we can save your next falcons from a similar fate,Nothing personal i would have posted this to anyone who did the same thing
Not going to let you slag off a very good product and in my experience a very good company to deal with when its obviously operater errror that caused the problem
Kind Regards Sandy and i hope you have a good new year

HallBeck
02-01-2012, 08:00 PM
So whats the deal with the RT Turbo? they don't seem to be available yet?

I think i am being tempted by a RT UHF!

Falcon Slave
02-01-2012, 08:27 PM
Hi Steve and Happy New Year to you.
For me, the best all arounder is still 216 or even moreso, 217Mhz.
That said, the 433Mhz RT TURBO is really changing my perceptions.
That bird you had trouble getting a signal from at 1/2 mile, I'd imagine there were some other factors at work, such as leg transmitter grounded, cut antenna, battery, wet ground or leaves, or a combination of these? Receiver technology is still important, too.
My telemetry kits are built form the ground up to give me the best possible chance of finding my birds before something else does, or before they leave the area entirely.
I've been a 216/217 guy for a long time now. It's the best balance, but there is a tradeoff in antenna size. The 433 impressed in open space when I was flying with the UHF Scout last winter but the signal didn't impress if anything was between me and the bird - still workable, mind you. So I'd say that my earliest perceptions were formed using the weakest 433 transmitter of the lot. I can only tell you what I see, so I had to go by that. I learn more as I go along, and the reason I've left this thread open for as long as I have is so that we can continually add to the knowledge base.
Last summer, the RT UHF really impressed me while hacking. I still had good signal from home, even if she was roosting out of line of sight on the hill or tooling around in the afternoons. I was always able to stay in touch with her until she presumably migrated and got behind the mountains.
Blaming myself for 1, not flying her with two transmitters (small percentage that her transmitter failed the day she left, but a very low percentage chance) and 2, not flying her with the RT TURBO for the sake of saving a few bucks on batteries (I had Marshall program the RT UHF with a very slow beep "permanent Apollo 13 mode") will always nag on my mind. So far, with the RT TURBO this winter, I'm astonished at the power. Keep in mind I don't impress easily.
Your question is regarding 173 VS 433, though and I feel that the RT UHF and the RT TURBO transmitters are right up there and with the TURBO, well beyond anything on the market that I've seen.
Even a backpack mount 173 is going to ground out in some setups - not so the 433. Do you know anyone with a Marshall 433/434 setup that you could get out and see?
To close this up for today, as I feel my New Years self-inflicted headache is causing me to ramble, I'd say "follow the technology". Easily said, I know, but I've never heard anyone say "I wish I hadn't switched to 433/434". That says something. Sticking with 173, it appears you'll either be unfolding giant Luksander TV aerials forever or letting companies like Merlin lie to you (Tracker Maxima Complete vs Merlin Ultima).
I myself am very close to switching to a 433/434 setup, relegating the others to backup status and demonstations. I've never tested the UHF Micro but I'll be getting one.

I'm always glad when the questions show that somebody actually reads this stuff! Thank you for that.

Justin,

Thanks.

I should have said I was using an old Field Marshall
(realise newer digital receivers are better) and RT+ on leg with micro (not shortened) on tail. Still I accept not a fair test. Ditch was also very wet - you should have seen me after crawling belly-flat along it under thick brambles.

No I haven't heard anyone regret the switch to 433/4 but moe importantly it sounds like you haven't. This is borderline persuasive alongside the fact I will almost certainly stick with Marshall so their strategic decision has made the decision If not the timing) for me.

One thing I did hear (on top of the usual hills/obstacles concern) was that with so much power it can be difficult determining direction once you get very close to your bird.

Also, in theory at least interference could be an issue. I believe 433.05-434.79 is designated (internationally I think) for ISM (industrial, scientific, medical) applications and so we and amateur radio users etc. "must accept harmful interference from ISM" - quote from an Ofcom document. I have no idea whether in practice such interference can be a problem. Presumably this refers to short-range ISM devices so whether it's an issue may depend on location.

Any views/data on this aspect?

By the way Marshall's web-site seems pretty out-of-date - static even - and a lot of new info seems to be passing by word of mouth. I managed to view the turbo on the Gulf section but like Hal Beck not sure if it's available here or even truly desirable. The price will be 'interesting' too.

Regards,
Steve

Almestrada
03-01-2012, 01:15 AM
I believe this thread is all about constructive and informative discussion about telemetry transmitters and receivers. I related my story which highlights a KNOWN WEAKNESS of Marshall receivers. Not everyone maybe . . .but many have experienced the same problem and highlighting it can only be of benefit, not only to make others aware but perhaps Marshall may even improve or eliminate the problem in future.

For the record. . .(1) the male gyr/pere was not flown in low condition (he was slightly high if anything) (2) he was not flown in mist, he was LOST in mist which blew in over the brow (3) the Scout transmitter was more than adequate for the job as the loss of signal had nothing to do with the performance of the transmitter (4) the bird was retrieved on the fourth day (not the third) and - as that unfortunately happened to include three of the coldest nights of this winter - anyone's bird of that sort of weight range which had covered the ground he had without managing to make a kill would have been just as low . .even if it were your's.

Perhaps you would like to advise Justin just how stupid his Japanese acquaintances were for not having built the levees higher to protect their towns before the Tsunami last year: I'm sure he'd appreciate that. . . just as much as I appreciate your 'advice'. I mean, you would accuse anyone of anything based on your manipulation of the information. . .and make no apology even when you are proved wrong. . .

I shall confine my comments on this thread to 'constructive and informative discussion' about telemetry systems hereafter and shall not be drawn into a pointless tit for tat.

Happy New Year to you too!

Sandy Rollo
03-01-2012, 09:32 AM
I believe this thread is all about constructive and informative discussion about telemetry transmitters and receivers. I related my story which highlights a KNOWN WEAKNESS of Marshall receivers. Not everyone maybe . . .but many have experienced the same problem and highlighting it can only be of benefit, not only to make others aware but perhaps Marshall may even improve or eliminate the problem in future.

For the record. . .(1) the male gyr/pere was not flown in low condition (he was slightly high if anything) (2) he was not flown in mist, he was LOST in mist which blew in over the brow (3) the Scout transmitter was more than adequate for the job as the loss of signal had nothing to do with the performance of the transmitter (4) the bird was retrieved on the fourth day (not the third) and - as that unfortunately happened to include three of the coldest nights of this winter - anyone's bird of that sort of weight range which had covered the ground he had without managing to make a kill would have been just as low . .even if it were your's.

Perhaps you would like to advise Justin just how stupid his Japanese acquaintances were for not having built the levees higher to protect their towns before the Tsunami last year: I'm sure he'd appreciate that. . . just as much as I appreciate your 'advice'. I mean, you would accuse anyone of anything based on your manipulation of the information. . .and make no apology even when you are proved wrong. . .

I shall confine my comments on this thread to 'constructive and informative discussion' about telemetry systems hereafter and shall not be drawn into a pointless tit for tat.

Happy New Year to you too!

i am not getting drawn into anything with you on this thread the very fact that you are still blaming your equipment proves the point that you will never learn from YOUR mistakes. The main point being you bought a 2nd hand reciever having no knowlage off its mainainance history , i bet the recievers more than 10 years old and never had any servicing done on it? if you buy a 10 year old car and dont service it what happens?
The fact that you had a hawk out for four days with a transmitter working a few miles from where u lost it beggers believe what your telling us is that because you couldnt be ar### getting another reciever on the same channel your falcon paid the ultimate price.
The lessons to be learned are these
1 > Always have your equipment serviced by the manufacturer in the close season it really doesnt cost a lot
2 Use the correct telemetry for the job in hand
3 Use 2 transmitters every time you fly
4 have a back up reciever that picks up the range of transmitters you have( I know off four recievers on your doorstep that would have got your falcon)


Theres no point in finding out which set ups the best if your not going to follow the manufacturers recomendations is there? like buying a rolls royce and never changing the oil
I am not having a go at Alex here i am just highlighting what could be an avoidable situation that others may benefit from his loss
Kind Regards Sandy

Almestrada
03-01-2012, 01:58 PM
I don't think anyone else here wishes to BENEFIT from MY LOSS as you put it Sandy: only to perhaps learn from my and others' experience. AS I AM SURE YOU KNEW EVEN THEN, I DID contact other falconers in the area at the time looking to get temporary use of the 173-173.999 receiver that I knew they had owned but was told it had been sold and that noone else that they knew had one. Perhaps you should have given me the benefit of your knowledge of who could assist with such a receiver THEN when the bird could still have been found and saved . . .yes indeed, perhaps I shouldn't only blame the Marshall receiver for his ultimate fate. . .

TiercelMan
03-01-2012, 03:02 PM
Perhaps you should have given me the benefit of your knowledge of who could assist with such a receiver THEN when the bird could still have been found and saved . . .yes indeed, perhaps I shouldn't only blame the Marshall receiver for his ultimate fate. . .

See, It's all your fault after all Sandy:roll:

Sandy Rollo
03-01-2012, 03:53 PM
I don't think anyone else here wishes to BENEFIT from MY LOSS as you put it Sandy: only to perhaps learn from my and others' experience. AS I AM SURE YOU KNEW EVEN THEN, I DID contact other falconers in the area at the time looking to get temporary use of the 173-173.999 receiver that I knew they had owned but was told it had been sold and that noone else that they knew had one. Perhaps you should have given me the benefit of your knowledge of who could assist with such a receiver THEN when the bird could still have been found and saved . . .yes indeed, perhaps I shouldn't only blame the Marshall receiver for his ultimate fate. . .

How am i supposed to know when you have a lost hawk? .If you had contacted me looking for a reciever i would have come up and tracked the bird for you im not heartles

HallBeck
03-01-2012, 04:18 PM
FFS you lot. This is a great and informative thread - go and fight somewhere else!!

CanadaManada
05-01-2012, 08:01 AM
Ok...
Now that we've gotten through that, lets talk about the cables again.
The cables on the new Field Marshalls have 90 degree gold plated connectors that would certainly reduce greatly the amount of play that the cable would see coming in and out of the bag, which is where I believe your problem may have originated.
I'll post pics once I've found an old cable in my spares box, so you can see what I'm talking about.

Almestrada
05-01-2012, 05:51 PM
Cheers!!! Back on track again . . .
I've tried to post a fairly long piece about why I still am a Luksander fan but when I press 'post reply' it disappears into the ether: I think it is timing out. I'll try again but spread it over 2 or more shorter posts.

I know the MN and MNS series receivers look a bit dated these days (although still quite light in weight) they nevertheless remain popular I believe because they do exactly what it says on the tin . . .perform well and absolutely reliably, day in day out, year in year out without drama. The worst which has gone wrong in my 12 years experience with them is my damaging the finger press channel selector button, which didn't prevent me from continuing to use it (I did get it repaired ultimately and re-tuned). They are also robust enough for everyday handling . . .if I were to accidentally trip up whilst tracking a bird I would rather do so with the L.L. as I would probably easily be able to bend the yagi back to its proper shape whereas the Marshall would break and crumble. My friend, a Marshall owner, borrowed my old 173 MN10 about 20 months ago when the yagi element on his FM5 broke; he almost turned his nose up at it the first time he saw it but soon after he had nothing but praise for its sure strong reliable reception/performance and confessed that since he had begun to fly longwings shortly before (as opposed to Harrises and Goses) he had begun to find the Marshall sometimes wanting. It was a year before I eventually had to remind him to return it to me . . he has since been talking about possibly buying a new Luksander.

Almestrada
06-01-2012, 12:34 AM
In the Marshall Stealth owner's manual it states that they use 'high reliability lightweight SMB connectors' and gold plated items probably offer near optimum performance . . however it seems to me their weakness is in that they are only a press home fit and that they are so narrow and fragile (in comparison to BNC) that they are vulnerable to failure under the small stresses they encounter with normal use/wear and tear . . .I say this because my receiver looks in almost new condition and I believe has seen only light use, whilst neither is there is any visible damage to the cable or SMB end connections. Even if a BNC connector is slightly heavier and perhaps offers fractionally less performance it is at least easily twisted and locked in place where it will remain properly connected indefinitely even under the rigours of daily use.

OutFlying
06-01-2012, 07:59 AM
In the Marshall Stealth owner's manual it states that they use 'high reliability lightweight SMB connectors' and gold plated items probably offer near optimum performance . . however it seems to me their weakness is in that they are only a press home fit and that they are so narrow and fragile (in comparison to BNC) that they are vulnerable to failure under the small stresses they encounter with normal use/wear and tear . . .I say this because my receiver looks in almost new condition and I believe has seen only light use, whilst neither is there is any visible damage to the cable or SMB end connections. Even if a BNC connector is slightly heavier and perhaps offers fractionally less performance it is at least easily twisted and locked in place where it will remain properly connected indefinitely even under the rigours of daily use.

Did you take advantage of the free check on your receiver by Marshalls (who offer to do a free service / check on there recievers) before the season started ?

Most makes of reciever that use a cable to connect to the yaggi will suffer a failure at some time, Luksanders and TRX series suffer the same problems.

Yours Jim.

Titaioi
06-01-2012, 11:03 AM
Did you ever get the bio-track system I sent you?

I received it and I asked CHICONG mail sent to you (because I do not write English well). I am very grateful to you for the gift because you know that in Vietnam there is no gps It is invaluable to me. I thank you very very much!
I was fortunate to receive help from you!

CanadaManada
06-01-2012, 01:59 PM
In the Marshall Stealth owner's manual it states that they use 'high reliability lightweight SMB connectors' and gold plated items probably offer near optimum performance . . however it seems to me their weakness is in that they are only a press home fit and that they are so narrow and fragile (in comparison to BNC) that they are vulnerable to failure under the small stresses they encounter with normal use/wear and tear . . .I say this because my receiver looks in almost new condition and I believe has seen only light use, whilst neither is there is any visible damage to the cable or SMB end connections. Even if a BNC connector is slightly heavier and perhaps offers fractionally less performance it is at least easily twisted and locked in place where it will remain properly connected indefinitely even under the rigours of daily use.

It needs adding that those connectors aren't used anymore and have been replaced in favour of the 90 degree bent types.
You're quoting old tech that has already been improved upon. Your "vulnerability" is on a receiver that has already been in the world for years.
I've got a Luksander or TRX aerial here (same maker) with a bum cable. I don't blame Luksander for it, nor do I blame the BNC connector. I blame the user that broke the cable in the first place.

I'll have pics of the connectors on the weekend.

Did you take advantage of the free check on your receiver by Marshalls (who offer to do a free service / check on there recievers) before the season started ?

Most makes of reciever that use a cable to connect to the yaggi will suffer a failure at some time, Luksanders and TRX series suffer the same problems.

Yours Jim.

Well put, Jim.

Almestrada
06-01-2012, 07:05 PM
I didn't know of Marshall's offer to check their receivers for free. . . is this offer still current? If so, who do I send it to (preferably within U.K.) and, as it appears that it is recognised that the type of SMB connector fitted on my Stealth is prone to failure, will Marshall replace them with the 'uprated' version? Thanks for the info by the way . . .Unfortunately I can't yet pm, however, should you wish to contact me in privacy I may be contacted on 07867562543. Alex

CanadaManada
06-01-2012, 10:22 PM
The Stealth cables aren't "prone" to failure - they have just been improved upon.

Visit www.marshallradio.com and click on the British falconry section. Under contacts you'll find the number for Marshall UK.

Incidentally, my own mentor has an original Stealth that has never had a cable failure and I've seen upwards of 35 older Field Marshall that never had bad cables. You need to accept that the cable on your used receiver failed, not because it was prone to failure, but because it is subject to wear. Have you tried the advice I gave you about pulling the cable and giving it a few turns? There is a lot we can try before declaring it "prone to failure".

Good luck.

CanadaManada
13-01-2012, 01:36 AM
Here we go. On the left is the newer Field Marshall cable with the gold-plated 90 degree connector and on the right is the basic cable. You can see how the new cable should be more robust.

It always helps to have a visual image.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_1268.jpg

Aman
13-01-2012, 10:28 AM
Hi Their Justin, i was just wondering if you have any experience with the new Stealth G5, is it as clear as the old one. Can one justify the $ 2100.
Thanks
Alec

CanadaManada
13-01-2012, 02:10 PM
Hi Their Justin, i was just wondering if you have any experience with the new Stealth G5, is it as clear as the old one. Can one justify the $ 2100.
Thanks
Alec

Hi Alec.
I haven't had one in my hands, so I don't have anything to say about it other than that I want one!
Once I settle on a single frequency (216 or 433), I think that will be the way for me to go.

Aman
14-01-2012, 08:03 AM
Hi Alec.
I haven't had one in my hands, so I don't have anything to say about it other than that I want one!
Once I settle on a single frequency (216 or 433), I think that will be the way for me to go.

I agree, i have the 4000, im sure its an arab gulf model, just not sure how to check? do you have any ideas? i think i will sell it during the season and get the new stealth.......i lost a bird last season with an RT Standard so this year i will give the RT Turbo a bash........it lost under very strange circumstances and even with a small plane we weren't able to find her ....

CanadaManada
14-01-2012, 11:42 AM
I agree, i have the 4000, im sure its an arab gulf model, just not sure how to check? do you have any ideas? i think i will sell it during the season and get the new stealth.......i lost a bird last season with an RT Standard so this year i will give the RT Turbo a bash........it lost under very strange circumstances and even with a small plane we weren't able to find her ....

I don't recall how to check Alec. Mine is the 4000 as well.
Are you friends with Cobus? He and I email from time to time. I think he mentioned something last summer about a lost signal that sounds like your description.
The RT TURBO is the real deal - make no mistake about it.

Aman
14-01-2012, 05:22 PM
I don't recall how to check Alec. Mine is the 4000 as well.
Are you friends with Cobus? He and I email from time to time. I think he mentioned something last summer about a lost signal that sounds like your description.
The RT TURBO is the real deal - make no mistake about it.

I know Cobus well, although he is in a different province (and in-turn club) to me. It may well be the same story, you now how story's travel within the falconry community.
Cheers Alec.

Almestrada
21-01-2012, 01:49 AM
Here we go. On the left is the newer Field Marshall cable with the gold-plated 90 degree connector and on the right is the basic cable. You can see how the new cable should be more robust.

It always helps to have a visual image.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_1268.jpg

I see, but without it in my hands it is still difficult to ascertain how much of an improvement it would be. I know it is a sensitive issue with you (and one or two others on here) but I am certainly not alone in my experiences of the SMB connections on older Marshalls (and I do know that BNC cables can also fail, but much much less frequently). Only a couple of acquaintances of mine have Marshall receivers (older FM5 models) and both have had problems, whilst a couple of folk I know who are in the falconry telemetry design, build and supply business have informed me that it has long been known about these issues. Anyway I appreciate your assistance and am glad that improvements have been made and hopeful that they shall be effective.
Would I or should I be able to use the newer 90 degree connection cable on my older stealth do you think?

Alex

Greg
21-01-2012, 10:31 AM
I've been using my FM 10ch Marshall receiver for almost ten years now and have never had a problem with this connection! I'm flying pursuit falcons at Crows and the receiver comes out on a regular basis! I doubt anyone else uses their telemetry much more than I do so it has had a fair testing!

Almestrada
24-01-2012, 02:06 AM
Hi Justin,
Did you sell that older 216Mhz Stealth G2 which you had advertised on the IFF last year?

TomOlivia
24-01-2012, 07:10 AM
I've been using my FM 10ch Marshall receiver for almost ten years now and have never had a problem with this connection! I'm flying pursuit falcons at Crows and the receiver comes out on a regular basis! I doubt anyone else uses their telemetry much more than I do so it has had a fair testing!

Hi Greg,

Clearly, I'm familiar with the type of ground you fly over (i might have poached one or two of your ducks over the years:lol:). What transmitter do you use. I ask because if it's good there, it should be good just about anywhere! Also, someone (could have been Justin) mentioned how good the RT Turbo was. Is this a Marshall transmitter...does anyone know?

Regards, Michael.

PS. I was joking about the ducks:lol: ...on second thoughts....that's a cracking little pond you have just a mile down the road on the bottom side:lol:

CanadaManada
24-01-2012, 05:29 PM
Hi Greg,

Clearly, I'm familiar with the type of ground you fly over (i might have poached one or two of your ducks over the years:lol:). What transmitter do you use. I ask because if it's good there, it should be good just about anywhere! Also, someone (could have been Justin) mentioned how good the RT Turbo was. Is this a Marshall transmitter...does anyone know?

Regards, Michael.

PS. I was joking about the ducks:lol: ...on second thoughts....that's a cracking little pond you have just a mile down the road on the bottom side:lol:

Michael,
The RT TURBO is the single most powerful transmitter I've ever even imagined.
MY GOD how that thing that thump.
I've had to start pencilling in my eyebrows since I've stated using it because they've fallen out. I do look a sight. Haven't gotten around to fake eyelashes yet. Everyone keeps asking me if I've got a sunburn...
Yes. It's a Marshall, Michael. A Marshall on a whole other level.

Sandy Rollo
24-01-2012, 10:00 PM
Sounds like the RT Turbo is the way to go ive always used a Powermax and RT plus either tailmount and leg mount or tail mount and back pack,always get a signal with powermax no mater what gets in between dont think ive ever pulled out the reciever and had to look for a signal its always there and never lose it.If the new RT Plus is better than that ill have to have a serious look at it for next season,does anyone know there avaiability in the UK

Greg
24-01-2012, 10:28 PM
Hi Greg,

Clearly, I'm familiar with the type of ground you fly over (i might have poached one or two of your ducks over the years:lol:). What transmitter do you use. I ask because if it's good there, it should be good just about anywhere! Also, someone (could have been Justin) mentioned how good the RT Turbo was. Is this a Marshall transmitter...does anyone know?

Regards, Michael.

PS. I was joking about the ducks:lol: ...on second thoughts....that's a cracking little pond you have just a mile down the road on the bottom side:lol:

Michael,
I usually use a Scout and a Powermax on each bird Powermax to give the range and power and the Scout because it has a good long battery life if you have problems! As you know Michael it is a very difficult area to track and sometimes the bird can only be a mile away but you don't get a signal! A lot of practice helps and you need work out the best positions to scan from! I sometimes laugh to myself when responding to a lost bird people will post, had a scan nothing in my area! As I said at times you will not get a signal from a bird that is very close but in the wrong position! I find the Omni antenna very useful as it enables me to cover a lot of ground without jumping out of the car every few hundred yards! I now keep my 10ch FM in the US so I have a receiver when I go over and here at home I use the new FM800 with the new short yagi it's a nice piece of kit!

TomOlivia
25-01-2012, 10:41 AM
Michael,
I usually use a Scout and a Powermax on each bird Powermax to give the range and power and the Scout because it has a good long battery life if you have problems! As you know Michael it is a very difficult area to track and sometimes the bird can only be a mile away but you don't get a signal! A lot of practice helps and you need work out the best positions to scan from! I sometimes laugh to myself when responding to a lost bird people will post, had a scan nothing in my area! As I said at times you will not get a signal from a bird that is very close but in the wrong position! I find the Omni antenna very useful as it enables me to cover a lot of ground without jumping out of the car every few hundred yards! I now keep my 10ch FM in the US so I have a receiver when I go over and here at home I use the new FM800 with the new short yagi it's a nice piece of kit!

I've just ordered a new omni from Justin and a micro for this little falcon. I have a scout aswell but way too big for this particular one!!

I know exactly what you mean about tracking in such countryside. I was once getting close to an errant falcon and the signal went from booming to gone in a second! I thought the worst but a few seconds later the signal was back and booming again. The hawk was on a Pheaso and getting 'turned' in all directions. That was all it took for the signal to totally drop out and come back. A random spot check, even from very close, wouldn't have picked the signal up so it would be very easy to assume there was nothing there and drive on:rolleyes:.
I eventually sussed out that the track near the top of Dent was the best spot to pick up a signal anywhere over the Nethertown/St Bees to Whitehaven and Moresby area of W Cumbria and that covered just about everywhere that I flew locally.....never did find out who owned any of the ground:lol::lol::lol:

Regards, Michael.

CanadaManada
14-02-2012, 11:11 AM
Guys, I cannot say enough good stuff about the RT TURBO transmitter.
It's a shame that every one produced is going to the Gulf but the Arabs feel the same way I do about them.
I think I'll have to get into it in more depth for those of you interested. Hopefully some will come available soon.
They're not completely unheard of to come by second hand. I had one come in back in December that had been brought out of the Gulf by a forum member.

HallBeck
14-02-2012, 11:27 AM
Do you know when we mere mortals will be able to get the RT Turbo?

CanadaManada
14-02-2012, 12:05 PM
Do you know when we mere mortals will be able to get the RT Turbo?

No sir, I do not. Sorry.
I wish I knew because if I did, I'd be taking orders. It's not everyday that the world's most powerful falconry transmitter is released.

CanadaManada
02-03-2012, 11:41 AM
Recently I've been sending all of my transmitter caps in to Marshall USA and having my contact information engraved on them.
I'll post pics of the ones I've gotten done ove the next while.

RT UHF in 434Mhz. This one has my name and mobile number.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_1264.jpg

And an RT+ legmount. Easily understood message. Even if my bird is picked up by a Japanese, most have enough English to grasp what the numbers mean.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_1263.jpg

TomOlivia
02-03-2012, 12:17 PM
Justin,

I got the stuff you sent today. The engraved caps for the micro and the scout are excellent. I can get rid of my silly little dog tags cluttering up their legs now!

Thanks and Regards, Michael.

PS. Send the bill when you're ready...I must be one of your trusted clients now:lol:

CanadaManada
02-03-2012, 01:22 PM
Justin,

I got the stuff you sent today. The engraved caps for the micro and the scout are excellent. I can get rid of my silly little dog tags cluttering up their legs now!

Thanks and Regards, Michael.

PS. Send the bill when you're ready...I must be one of your trusted clients now:lol:

After all you and I have been through Michael, you are indeed!

Take a pic of your fancy engraved caps - on those hot Aussie birds!

TomOlivia
06-08-2012, 08:36 AM
Hi Justin,

The 433 arrived today (Monday). it came in a very small box and my first thought was that it must be the transmitters and a few bits and pieces with the receiver to follow! This thing is a nice neat little package, I will take pics and post them up for all to see then get on with the testing and report on my findings as agreed. Did you forget to send the holster for my old 173?

regards, Michael.

TomOlivia
06-08-2012, 09:02 AM
just to let you know at the outset...there is no handle with the unit. the total package is the receiver unit (minus the handle), 3 transmitters, 1 spare transmitter antenna, 2 magnetic switches, 1holster and carrying strap and 1 owners guide. no batteries for transmitters or receiver so testing will start tomorrow if I can get the right ones. Michael.

CanadaManada
06-08-2012, 10:19 AM
Hi Justin,

The 433 arrived today (Monday). it came in a very small box and my first thought was that it must be the transmitters and a few bits and pieces with the receiver to follow! This thing is a nice neat little package, I will take pics and post them up for all to see then get on with the testing and report on my findings as agreed. Did you forget to send the holster for my old 173?

regards, Michael.

No handle??? Ooops. Just hold it by the body for now, please. That's what the groove Machined into the bottom corner is for.
I'll get one out tomorrow. Your 173 holster went out the day before the receiver, but by regular airmail. Should be there sometime in the next week.
That holster is free to you, BTW. Japan Post wouldn't let me send batteries to Australia, so let's consider it a straight swap for your batteries, ok?

TomOlivia
06-08-2012, 11:09 AM
Yes, no probs.

EdenJohnny
06-08-2012, 12:25 PM
Sounds like Justin is a fair trader, never heard a bad word against him.

TomOlivia
06-08-2012, 12:36 PM
Sounds like Justin is a fair trader, never heard a bad word against him.
Cracking bloke John...he sent me this brand new Marshall 433 set with three transmitters to do some trials then report my findings on here. even if the set is rubbish (won't be), it says an awful lot about the fella when he trusts one of his customers with over a grands worth of his own equipment! I'd better go and stop the Setter chewing the box to bits eh?:lol: Michael.

BrigiePigeons
06-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Sounds like Justin is a fair trader, never heard a bad word against him.

Yes EJ Not Many Like Him Around

EdenJohnny
06-08-2012, 01:03 PM
Yes EJ Not Many Like Him Around

I will definately be ordering off him when I,ve saved up My pocket money, unless he does HP lol:yawinkle::yawinkle:

CanadaManada
06-08-2012, 01:13 PM
Michael,
I just want to state for the record that if your eyelashes and or eyebrows fall out after you fire up the RT TURBO, I will not be held responsible!

TomOlivia
06-08-2012, 01:30 PM
Michael,
I just want to state for the record that if your eyelashes and or eyebrows fall out after you fire up the RT TURBO, I will not be held responsible!

you'll be picking up the tab for my next facial and eyebrow tint if they do!:lol:

Are you saying this stuff is more powerful than my old single stage 20 year old bio-track 173?:lol: My tracking skills must be good....I've been working with 'Del Boy' mobiles all this time and still only lost one hawk in all that time....sod!

I just thought...you are from Canada and now live in Japan....you won't know Del Boy...you poor thing!

CanadaManada
10-08-2012, 06:02 AM
you'll be picking up the tab for my next facial and eyebrow tint if they do!:lol:

Are you saying this stuff is more powerful than my old single stage 20 year old bio-track 173?:lol: My tracking skills must be good....I've been working with 'Del Boy' mobiles all this time and still only lost one hawk in all that time....sod!

I just thought...you are from Canada and now live in Japan....you won't know Del Boy...you poor thing!

Haha. I know of "Del Boy". A British falconry friend over her references it all the time.

I think having used that Bio-track and your 173 Field Marshall, the first thing you'll notice is Tom won't have to wear safety goggles if he's out in the field with you on a trackdown.

"Is your 173Mhz yagi endangering the eyesight or even the lives of your children? All that and more coming up after these important messages from our sponsors!"

Little Joe
22-08-2012, 07:14 PM
Michael,
I just want to state for the record that if your eyelashes and or eyebrows fall out after you fire up the RT TURBO, I will not be held responsible!

Hi Justin,

Sorry if its been covered before, but what kind of battery life do you expect from a RT Turbo?

Rgds,
Jannes

CanadaManada
23-08-2012, 12:11 AM
Hi Justin,

Sorry if its been covered before, but what kind of battery life do you expect from a RT Turbo?

Rgds,
Jannes

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
Lemmee see............
I honestly don't know. Not long. You may recall that I don't wait for the double beep, I have a set schedule for changing batteries.
I swap out the RT TURBO batteries after less than 24 hours.
There is no manual, and no printed specs on the RT TURBO. It's almost as if they don't exist.
I'll ballpark this and say 5 days. I'll turn one on today Jannes, and let you know. Now, where did I put that potassium iodide?

TomOlivia
25-08-2012, 12:18 PM
Hi all,

Justin recently sent me a new Marshall 433 with a 'micro' and an RT+ to do some field testing. (He's very trusting:D). Anyway, I'm gonna do a series of tests and report them on this thread for anyone interested.

Being a radiological surveyor, I do have a greater than 'average' understanding of wavelengths, frequencies, absorption, deflection and triangulation and generally how radio waves work, so that has probably helped me to retreive errant hawks quicker than I would have otherwise, but other than that, I'm writing this with no particular qualifications other than being a telemetry user for about 20 years.
I should also say that all my previous experience has been with firstly a Bio-track BT6 on 173Mhz, and more recently with a Field Marshall, also on 173 so of course that is all I can compare it to.

The tests will be very basic stuff, just to see how good or bad this 433 stuff is but Justin needn't worry, I won't be dropping the receiver in a bucket of water or driving the truck over it to test for durability:lol:

OK, here goes......

Got the stuff through the post and the first thing I immediately notice is the very small packaging. I'm thinking he's sent me the transmitters and a few batteries with the receiver to follow but no...it's all there, in a package no bigger than 2 old VHS video cassettes stuck together!
I got my daughter to hold the 173 fully extended and the 433. As you can see from the pics, the entire 433 fits between two of the yagi ariels on the 173 and that isn't trick photography! Clearly, on portability and user-friendliness, the 433 has it by a furlong.

Today, I did a 'close quarters' test. My son hid the micro in some long grass and off I went. I found the directionality to be much more specific at close range than the 173 and perhaps a short explanation is in order. For those of you telemetry buffs, it's time to check out another thread LOL.
Previously, when having to track either a transmitter that's became detached from the hawk, or when tracking a hawk down on a kill in thick cover, I've always struggled to pin-point the transmitter quickly because tuning away from the strongest signal is required and I've even resorted to 'boxing' (detaching the yagi connection from the reciever) and searching very much like a ferret finder. The problem with the 173 is that the receiver seems to get very easily 'flooded' so directionality becomes fuzzy because no matter how you orientate the yagi, the signal strength seems to be almost uniform from all directions. Even attenuator switches and turning the gain down and tuning away, only work with quite alot of practice when there is no hawk or the ring of a bell to tell you exactly where the transmitter is (I'm talking about really close in of course....under a metre)

With this 433, I only had to tune away a couple of clicks and that reduced the signal to almost nothing. The directionality was excellent, even when only 2 or 3 feet from the transmitter, and a quick 'circle' around the area of the strongest signal pointed me right at it. No 'boxing' required and I had it in my hand within a minute of locating it's approximate whereabouts. Previously, this could have taken alot longer, and has had me scratching my head at times....

So, there you have the result of the first test. I will of course be doing some others such as long distance tracking and signal strength over varying terrains as well as 'operational' battery life and general user friendliness.

The pics are there so you can compare the size of the 433 to the 173, it's obvious which one's which....how small will these things get in the future? LOL

Regards, Michael

BUM! The pics have made the text 'spread out'....sorry about that minor annoyance:oops:

DarkwingDuck
25-08-2012, 12:48 PM
Hi Michael,

just read the beginning of your test on the 433 and i liked your comparison to the older system - especially as it was supplemented with those fotos! :D

I'm looking forward to read about your further results as i'm planning on getting one of these 433/434 Marshall-Systems soon!

Regards
Andy

P.S. Excuse my faulty english..

TomOlivia
25-08-2012, 12:52 PM
Hi Michael,

just read the beginning of your test on the 433 and i liked your comparison to the older system - especially as it was supplemented with those fotos! :D

I'm looking forward to read about your further results as i'm planning on getting one of these 433/434 Marshall-Systems soon!

Regards
Andy

P.S. Excuse my faulty english..

No Worries Andy! I should have said...the receiver boxes are very similar in size and weight, it's just the yagi that is huge on the 173 and only slightly smaller on the 216. Don't know if I can go back to the 173 and I've only just begun!:lol: Michael.

DarkwingDuck
25-08-2012, 12:59 PM
No Worries Andy! I should have said...the receiver boxes are very similar in size and weight, it's just the yagi that is huge on the 173 and only slightly smaller on the 216. Don't know if I can go back to the 173 and I've only just begun!:lol: Michael.


Wow, that persuaded of it already?! :lol:
Another thing i'm still uncertain of is which transmitter to choose for a goldie..
Any ideas? Anybody? And why? :-|

Andy

09Spar09
25-08-2012, 01:06 PM
you should be out testing tomolivia,lol,only messing,im looking forward to the results as ive the same set up on 433 with the micro transmitter,that was a good write up too,atb bob

TomOlivia
25-08-2012, 01:17 PM
you should be out testing tomolivia,lol,only messing,im looking forward to the results as ive the same set up on 433 with the micro transmitter,that was a good write up too,atb bob

Thanks Bob...I'm brushing up on my English:lol:
Andy, I couldn't advise you which transmitter to go for on an Eagle but just about anything backpacked, with the 433 would be good? Michael.

Richey1973
28-08-2012, 01:16 PM
No Worries Andy! I should have said...the receiver boxes are very similar in size and weight, it's just the yagi that is huge on the 173 and only slightly smaller on the 216. Don't know if I can go back to the 173 and I've only just begun!:lol: Michael.
I really like the compact size of the 433. You can use it in a car without getting out to scan. Saves a hell of a lot of time! looking forward to the rest of the test.
Rich

CanadaManada
29-08-2012, 02:36 AM
I really like the compact size of the 433. You can use it in a car without getting out to scan. Saves a hell of a lot of time! looking forward to the rest of the test.
Rich

I lay mine right on the dashboard, pointing forward. You're right about it saving time.

Now, for what I'd mentioned a while back about how to test transmitters for real-world range. Throwing them on the ground and doing the walkaway test is fine, if you're comparing different transmitters against one another - results will be relative to the other transmitters in the test.

For this next test we're going to need a 500ml soda bottle, some salt, and some water.
We'll use the RT TURBO for this test, as Jannes had asked last week how much runtime I'm getting.
Anybody guess where I'm going with this?

PaulUsHilarius
29-08-2012, 06:03 AM
For this next test we're going to need a 500ml soda bottle, some salt, and some water.

Anybody guess where I'm going with this?

Out to sea?:yawinkle:

DarkwingDuck
29-08-2012, 10:29 AM
Testing it in a Sea-Eagles bathing tub? :rolleyes:

Pendleside
29-08-2012, 11:09 AM
Salt water inhibits radio waves, if different transmitters are tested under the same conditions (size of bottle, amount of liquid, and salinity of liquid) then it should show which is the most powerful without travelling any great distance.

Do you intend trying out distances linked to solar activity Justin?

Pete

CanadaManada
03-09-2012, 01:11 PM
Salt water inhibits radio waves, if different transmitters are tested under the same conditions (size of bottle, amount of liquid, and salinity of liquid) then it should show which is the most powerful without travelling any great distance.

That's good thinking but no. I'm far lazier than that. I'd just take off the antennas so as not to have to move very far. The salt water serves another, completely logical function.

Do you intend trying out distances linked to solar activity Justin? This is interesting, Pete, and you'd mentioned it before. Could you elaborate a little?

Pete

Any other guesses before the big reveal?

TomOlivia
06-10-2012, 12:53 AM
Done another test with the Marshall FM100 on 433 UHF that Justin sent me. This was a distance test with an 'RT Turbo' and a 'micro'.
Both transmitters, with new batteries, were hung from a low bush about 4 feet from the ground and off I went. I drove to the point where I knew the signal on my Marshall 173 with a 'scout' was only just discernible, which was about 5km as the crow flies. I got the signals (both) loud and clear before I got out of the car! The RT was booming once the yogi was pointed back towards it and the signal was still good even when set to the 'med' setting. The micro was still good but only on the 'far' setting but even so, it was already out-performing the Scout on 173.

I drove on to about 8 km at which point the micro was about at it's limit as a trackable signal, and I had to walk around a little to pick it up and it was very faint in amongst the static. Still, very good considering this thing goes for the length of time it does continually (about three weeks I'm told) and it way out-performs my Scout and blows anything else I've used in the past, clean out of the water!
The RT was still giving a very strong signal, and still audible on the 'med' setting, but I couldn't get it at all on the 'near' setting which is just as we'll....otherwise the setting would be no use anyway!
On I drove, an on, and on, until at about the 20km mark (as the crow flies), the signal on the RT was only just discernible on the 'far' setting. I then stood up on a corner fence post and raised the set overhead (so probably at about 12ft off the ground), the signal was a little stronger so presumably a hill or other high point would have given me much more trackable distance.

The terrain was almost flat but with all the usual housing estates, low bushland (Western Australia) and numerous tall stands of trees etc. Other than the extra height from the fence post, both the transmitters and the receiver were at about the same height and fairly low to the ground ie chest height.
If there had been any altitude involved, in the case of either the receiver or the transmitter(s), it would be safe to presume that the trackable distance would have been considerably further....way further than anything I've seen or used before! I've been told that the UHF waveband isn't so good in hilly terrain but a friend of mine assures me that he NEVER lost the signal (always very re-assuring), using the same equipment, when he had to track his young tiercel on it's 'baby hack' that most of them seem to have during that first season. This was in VERY hilly country...like 12-1500ft high hills between him and the hawk at times!!!

One thing I've noticed is that there doesn't seem to be any need to use headphones, which are just about essential for initial tracking of a distant signal with the other stuff I've used. Obviously, the speaker on these things is very good and there seems to be less static and more signal. Also, I haven't tested using an omni-directional car roof mounted antenna but, the set with the yagi all expanded, can be fully rotated even whilst still sat in the driving seat of a normal vehicle (not recommended of course!....not whilst actually driving anyway:lol:) so perhaps not much use for one anyway but I'm sure it would be a useful addition in certain circumstances.

In conclusion, this equipment is simply fantastic and so much better than anything I've seen or used before. I've only ever lost one falcon in almost 20 years of game hawking and I'm certain that if I'd had this tracking equipment back then, I would have been re-united with my errant duck hawk in short order.
I can now start to believe that Marshall's claim of tracking signals up to 100 miles away (line of sight in low humidity skies) could well be the reality, rather than fanciful. In fact, I would go so far as saying that if your falcon/hawk/eagle was carrying a working transmitter with good batteries and your receiver the same, there should never be lost birds ever again....barring an immediate migration to better climes!:lol:

An excellent piece of kit and well worth the investment if you can afford it. I'm sold, so Justin....the cash is on it's way and thanks for putting your trust in me!

Regards, Michael.

SBaldwin
06-10-2012, 08:36 AM
Hi mike fantastic info. Would you like to do some advertising for my company lol Whats your rate 'the cash is in the post! Atb scott

Pendleside
06-10-2012, 10:47 AM
Hi Mike,

Comparing a Scout on 173 against an RT Turbo and a Micro on 433 isnt by any means a fair comparison, both transmiters will out-perform a Scout whatever frequency is used - and a digital system will always out-perform an analogue unit anyhow. :yawinkle:
The results of your 'test' are already copmmon knowledge - the more expensive and better quality RT and Micro tags will always give a stronger signal at a greater distance than the Scout - its like comparing the farmers Series 3 diesel to a Dakar prepared supercharged Range Rover. :lol:

Pete.

TomOlivia
06-10-2012, 11:29 AM
Hi Mike,

Comparing a Scout on 173 against an RT Turbo and a Micro on 433 isnt by any means a fair comparison, both transmiters will out-perform a Scout whatever frequency is used - and a digital system will always out-perform an analogue unit anyhow. :yawinkle:
The results of your 'test' are already copmmon knowledge - the more expensive and better quality RT and Micro tags will always give a stronger signal at a greater distance than the Scout - its like comparing the farmers Series 3 diesel to a Dakar prepared supercharged Range Rover. :lol:

Pete.

It wasn't common knowledge to me mate! There's always one eh?!
It was a comparison between what I've been used to and this 433 gizmo, Justin sent me it to do some testing and I posted my findings. If you don't like it or can't be bothered to read it then don't....I couldn't care less. Your apology is accepted:lol: Come on, lighten up man!!!
Michael.

Hi Scott, too busy with work to take owt else on Mate but I,ll listen offers over 100G per annum:lol:....you get alot for your money! Hope the hawking is going well. Regards, Michael.

Pendleside
06-10-2012, 04:20 PM
It wasn't common knowledge to me mate! There's always one eh?!
It was a comparison between what I've been used to and this 433 gizmo, Justin sent me it to do some testing and I posted my findings. If you don't like it or can't be bothered to read it then don't....I couldn't care less. Your apology is accepted:lol: Come on, lighten up man!!!
Michael.

But I obviously did read it or I wouldnt have known what to put in my reply.:yawinkle:
I think its you that needs to lighten up Mike , all I did was point out the obvious!

Pete.

CanadaManada
06-10-2012, 04:33 PM
Michael,
Don't you have a 173 Micro? Could have sworn you had one for the small birds.
A Micro showdown might be nice to see.

Pendleside
06-10-2012, 04:43 PM
Michael,
Don't you have a 173 Micro? Could have sworn you had one for the small birds.
A Micro showdown might be nice to see.

It still wouldnt give a true representation using a 173 analogue receiver?

Pete.

CanadaManada
06-10-2012, 05:01 PM
It still wouldnt give a true representation using a 173 analogue receiver?

Pete.

If so Pete, would a test of both, using a wideband scanner and the appropriate yagis settle this?

Pendleside
06-10-2012, 05:14 PM
If so Pete, would a test of both, using a wideband scanner and the appropriate yagis settle this?

Whats to settle?
I only pointed out that the comparisons were flawed because of the equipment used to make the comparison.
A scout will never perform like an RT or a Micro - if it did then it would command the same price and perhaps have a bigger following with the longwingers .

Pete.

CanadaManada
06-10-2012, 05:28 PM
Whats to settle?
I only pointed out that the comparisons were flawed because of the equipment used to make the comparison.
A scout will never perform like an RT or a Micro - if it did then it would command the same price and perhaps have a bigger following with the longwingers .

Pete.

Settle that 433 can and will outperform 173.

Gosman_2
06-10-2012, 05:51 PM
I have been useing a marshals digi FM1000 on 433 for a couple of weeks now and to be honest im a bit disappointed with its directional accuracy, strangely it seems more accurate on the far setting compared to the med and near setting even when very close to the bird , even turned right down till i can just hear the beep i can get the same sound 90 degrees off the true direction ?

Forgot to say im useing a merlin mx micro tag .

TomOlivia
06-10-2012, 10:57 PM
But I obviously did read it or I wouldnt have known what to put in my reply.:yawinkle:
I think its you that needs to lighten up Mike , all I did was point out the obvious!

Pete.



You misunderstood me and my intentions. I was simply putting it through it's paces, and the only thing I could compare it to was my 173 which it out-performed hands down. That doesn't mean, nor was it intended to lead people to believe, that it was some sort of a 'comparison' competition between one and the other. It is what it is Peter, with absolutely no offence either to the poor old 173, or to your very good self, ever being my intention and in fact, this notion never entered my very empty head....I should have known better:rolleyes:

Regardless, your apology is acepted:lol: Michael.

TomOlivia
06-10-2012, 11:26 PM
Justin, the micro on the 173 was roughly about the same as the scout and I found it hard to pick up any signal more than a few (4-5) Kms away, without any height being involved. The micro on the 433 could still be picked up about twice that distance. I do hope the 173 doesn't feel offended:lol:

CanadaManada
07-10-2012, 03:23 AM
Justin, the micro on the 173 was roughly about the same as the scout and I found it hard to pick up any signal more than a few (4-5) Kms away, without any height being involved. The micro on the 433 could still be picked up about twice that distance. I do hope the 173 doesn't feel offended:lol:

It will feel offended after I'm done with it! :lol:

I have been useing a marshals digi FM1000 on 433 for a couple of weeks now and to be honest im a bit disappointed with its directional accuracy, strangely it seems more accurate on the far setting compared to the med and near setting even when very close to the bird , even turned right down till i can just hear the beep i can get the same sound 90 degrees off the true direction ?

Forgot to say im useing a merlin mx micro tag .

How close are you to the Merlin transmitter in this situation?

Gosman_2
07-10-2012, 11:30 AM
Im flying a spar so not that far, from about 10 to 300 yards .Cover is still thick at the moment making it hard to spot her in the middle of a bramble bush !

What i find strange is i get a good difference in tone on far but not so on the other two settings , its a brand knew set by the way.


How close are you to the Merlin transmitter in this situation?[/QUOTE]

Pendleside
07-10-2012, 11:50 AM
It will feel offended after I'm done with it! :lol:


You really think so ? :lol::lol:

If digital 173 stops performing for me then I will change to a different frequency - as it is there isnt any reason to change as it performs admirably from the highlands of Scotland to the billiard table terrain of the Romney Marshes and anything inbetween.
Yagi size doesnt really cause any problems - and if ime in the motor then its coupled up to the omni anyhow so having it opened up in a motor doesnt really apply and it also keeps the license clean.lol
If Marshalls had continued developing the HSL in 173 then I would have one as they do look neater and tidier when compared to the full size version , but until the principles of diffraction change I will stick with what works best for my needs.;)

Pete.

Almestrada
17-10-2012, 02:04 PM
I've wanted to test a Luksander MNS receiver against a digital FM Marshall for awhile: I have 3 Luksander MNS's on 216 (2 MNS 4000s and an MNS 40) but only had an original Marshall Stealth G2 on 173. I tested that briefly against a Luksander MN10 on 173 and, although my tests were not exhaustive, I found the MN10 to perform better. I recently sold the Stealth and have just bought 'Berkut's FM1000 on 173 (although still to pick it up) so I'll be looking for an MNS 100 or an MNS 4000 on 173 (if anyone has one for sale) to thereafter be able to do a direct comparison for performance/practicality capabilites.
I've been a Luksander devotee for many years and think they still cut it . . . so, if and when I get a 173 MNS, I'll be looking forward to finding out ultimately for sure whether it'll be the Marshall or the Luksander which I will want to take out with me when flying my birds.
Any constructive comments or offers of MNS 173 receiver/s in good order are welcomed . . .

Alex

I've wanted to test a Luksander MNS receiver against a digital FM Marshall for awhile: I have 3 Luksander MNS's on 216 (2 MNS 4000s and an MNS 40) but only had an original Marshall Stealth G2 on 173. I tested that briefly against a Luksander MN10 on 173 and, although my tests were not exhaustive, I found the MN10 to perform better. I recently sold the Stealth and have just bought 'Berkut's FM1000 on 173 (although still to pick it up) so I'll be looking for an MNS 100 or an MNS 4000 on 173 (if anyone has one for sale) to thereafter be able to do a direct comparison for performance/practicality capabilites.
I've been a Luksander devotee for many years and think they still cut it . . . so, if and when I get a 173 MNS, I'll be looking forward to finding out ultimately for sure whether it'll be the Marshall or the Luksander which I will want to take out with me when flying my birds.
Any constructive comments or offers of MNS 173 receiver/s in good order are welcomed . . .

Alex

Sorry, I have a stammer !!! Lol

Really don't know how that happened.

Thomen
04-02-2013, 09:53 PM
hi Justin I know Marshall scouts are great on the birds just wondering that you suggest as a good receiver with the ability have a directional antenna attached.. I'm doing my homework andnlooking at eventually getting in to bird's of prey post all the right training but would love to know a good setup for a beginner so I can practice..

thanks
tom

CanadaManada
15-03-2013, 12:59 AM
Well it's been a while since I've tested but I've just come up with an idea that will interest some of you.
I'll take my 2 Marshall FM4000 receivers and using a single transmitter, I will run the standard Marshall yagi unit against my personal HSL yagi equipped receiver.
It should be fun. I'll get you guys a pic today. . . IN THE SNOW! Oh how I wish spring would come!

Yagi showdown!

Bunny Blaster
15-03-2013, 11:26 PM
was there any difference in the yagis if so which one performed the best

CanadaManada
17-03-2013, 12:43 PM
Man it's cold outside! Hehe.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0399Medium_zps46fed1ab.jpg

Which is why you get the indoor pics. These are our two test systems. Aside from the yagis, both are identical spec FM4000 Arab Gulf Edition receivers manufactured in 2007.

I'll choose a transmitter tonight. Probably an RT+ from which I'll remove the antenna. I'm not testing absolute range here, only relative range. I've had a little think about this today and I will also test directionality.

Stay tuned.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0400Medium_zps528c1e95.jpg

CanadaManada
20-03-2013, 05:09 AM
I had figured to use an RT+ for the test but this week I had a system arrive on a trade-in deal so I had to share it with you.
My customer had told me that he'd replace the antenna on the transmitter before sending but I told him not to bother - I have plenty on hand. He insisted a second time but I told him it really was no trouble for me.

When I opened the box, I had to laugh. "That's why he'd insisted!" The transmitter antenna was the worst I've seen. It looked as though his bird had actually tried to eat it! This is what 8000 of white goshawk can do with a few minutes of spare time.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0088Medium_zps3fe5f64b.jpg

This however played right into our test. Here's an antenna needing replacing anyway. No sense in stripping an RT+. I'll show you guys how it's done. I imagine quite a few of you have never taken the antenna off a transmitter before and I want to show you how shockingly easy it is. If you've got an antenna that's in need of replacing, call Stephen at Marshall Direct 0161-870-6518 for the part, and with five minutes of your time, you're good to go.
For now I'll just show you how to get the antenna off. We'll leave installation for another day.
You'll need nothing more than a sharp knife.
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0089Medium_zps83d5922c.jpg

Cut down to the metal. Don't worry - you won't damage the transmitter.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0091Medium_zps085905b9.jpg

Now wriggle the shrink-tubing around a bit and slide it towards the end of the antenna.


http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0092Medium_zpsa13c084c.jpg

CanadaManada
20-03-2013, 05:13 AM
Now you hold the base of the antenna between thumb and forefinger and unscrew it. Stop worrying! You can do this! It's designed to be field replaceable.

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0093Medium_zpsf8a91b6b.jpg

Now your transmitter has been stripped and you're ready to install your new antenna, or as in our case, ready to head outside for testing!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0094Medium_zpsa08b08e5.jpg

This goes in the trash!

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh30/canadamanada/DSC_0095Medium_zps1bb1af97.jpg

Outlaw333
24-03-2013, 08:41 PM
Thankyou, that is really useful to know. How is the test going/gone?

Bunny Blaster
27-03-2013, 11:24 PM
did you find any difference between the to sets

Bunny Blaster
07-04-2013, 11:10 PM
any results on the test yet

Bullet
04-05-2013, 05:53 PM
did you find any difference between the to sets

would be intresting to find out, any news yet Justin?
atb mark