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-   -   Harris Hawk x Golden Eagle Hybrid Chick (http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94903)

Goshawk007 13-07-2010 05:06 PM

Harris Hawk x Golden Eagle Hybrid Chick
 
Good day, along with my brother in-law, we are the owner breeders of the Harris-Eagle cross.
I thought the last few emails provided a good time for me to tell you a little bit about the bird you all show great interest in.
I won't talk about the ethics as I think it is another subject and is not really what most people are truly interested in.
The young bird is now 26 days old. We don't know the sex yet. The baby has been raised by the mother and adopted father golden eagle since it was 10 days old.

The young bird was produced by inseminating a non imprinted rehab female eagle using semen from an imprint harris. It was hatched in 35 days, not the normal 45 of a regular eagle. This is extremely interesting given the mother is the eagle! It hatched as easily as any bird we have hatched. At birth it weighed 91 grams. at 9 days it had grown to 331 grams and was consuming its own weight in food daily. It's personality is, was very much like a young eagle, laid back easy going, compared to the much more active harris hawk at that stage.
We have had the pair of eagles for 9 years. We had hoped to produce a pure eagle, but the males wing is damaged and he is not able to balance on the back of the female when he (sparingly) attempts to copulate.
Why produce the bird?
Our thinking is that we "may" end up with a somewhat smaller eagle like bird. It may turn out like a larger more muscular Harris, or a Red tail or a Bonelli, we are not sure. One thing is for sure, we won't know if we don't try. Personally, I am most interested in its intelligence. I think the Harris and the Golden eagle are among the most intelligent falconry birds.

What is the bird like? We, like you, thought it might be a slightly smaller Golden eagle given that its mother is a golden eagle. As stated earlier, it is 26 days old and growing at a rapid pace. It is standing up and running around the nest much to the disappointment of the mother who is trying to feed it. By the weekend, my brother in-law feels it will be well feathered on its back. It has a small black tail already showing.
I have not seen the bird for almost a week, . The beak is somewhere in the middle Harris/Eagle, with a large head.

In terms of size, it does not appear to be anywhere near the size of an eagle. Perhaps 4-5 lbs when full grown. Keep in mind we don't know the sex, so it could be a male which will make it appear even smaller then its parents. It appears to have a really good build. It has legs and feet like an eagle, feathered down the leg.
I will see the bird on the weekend and do my best to send a couple good pictures for you to see.

What are our plans:
The bird is not for sale. We want to fly the bird. We are falconers first and breeders second. We both have approx 30 years each flying birds. My brother in-law is an extremely good falconer flying mostly goshawks so the bird will be in excellent hands.

On a personal level, we are very proud of what we have accomplished to date. I am particularly proud of what my brother in law did as he is the one who did along with another one of our friends did the insemination with a non compliant eagle. If you don't know how difficult it is, ask an eagle breeder!

We will do our best to keep you posted as we learn more about the bird.

Thank you for taking interest in what we have done.


This thread was split from the Harris x Goldie Hybrid Discussion http://falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=93814

Stu28 13-07-2010 05:33 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
Hi

Thanks for the update.

But i still dont understand why.

You have clearly said ( by not mentioning ) its not for medical reasons like Tim (plantbreeder ) was defending the decision over.

You say to get a smaller Eagle, like a Bonelli !!!

If you want to fly a small Bonelli breed one and fly that.
Or even like a muscular Red Tail fly one and get it super fit then.

As it will atill only catch what the above can catch.

Science wise it is a great achievment, and a skilled one to do breeding wise.
And you clearly have vast experiance with birds.

I in no way wish to sound rude, and you certainly have no reason to explain yourselves, especially not to me.
I only wish to understand the " Why "

thats all.

Chamokane 13-07-2010 05:40 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
Thanks for the background information.

Dave

RedNoseK9 13-07-2010 05:41 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
I dont understand what this obsession with Why is, Ok so its not your taste or you like me see no benefit but its very simple to understand like all Hybrids its been done because it Can and through Curiosity I dont see that there is anything more to understand than that !!

Wez

SakerJack 13-07-2010 05:47 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
Thank you Goshawk007.

Stu28 13-07-2010 05:48 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RedNoseK9 (Post 1494913)
I dont understand what this obsession with Why is, Ok so its not your taste or you like me see no benefit but its very simple to understand like all Hybrids its been done because it Can and through Curiosity I dont see that there is anything more to understand than that !!

Wez


Its irrelevant wether its to my taste. thats not important.

I just wanted to know , what they hope to achieve , why they felt what they had was not good enough.

Just because you can , does not explain why.
you could beat a guy up just because you can, the rozzers would still want to know why.

( bad analagy i know , but your into your fighting )

Goshawk007 13-07-2010 06:04 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
Why???
Lets make it simple. We as breeders know what we get from an infertile eagle egg. A very large omlette:cool:

We don't know what we will achieve until we try, do we?

All of us are trying new things every day. Some work out, some don't.

This happens to be an issue which is near and dear to all of us as falconers and breeders.

I understand where most of the comments and phylosophies come from. No problem.

Some of us like what we have and see no reason to change. Thats good.
Some of us wish to push the envelope to see whats inside...thats good too.

Schwartze 13-07-2010 06:06 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by goshawk007 (Post 1494862)
Good day, along with my brother in-law, we are the owner breeders of the Harris-Eagle cross.
I thought the last few emails provided a good time for me to tell you a little bit about the bird you all show great interest in.
I won't talk about the ethics as I think it is another subject and is not really what most people are truly interested in.
The young bird is now 26 days old. We don't know the sex yet. The baby has been raised by the mother and adopted father golden eagle since it was 10 days old.

The young bird was produced by inseminating a non imprinted rehab female eagle using semen from an imprint harris. It was hatched in 35 days, not the normal 45 of a regular eagle. This is extremely interesting given the mother is the eagle! It hatched as easily as any bird we have hatched. At birth it weighed 91 grams. at 9 days it had grown to 331 grams and was consuming its own weight in food daily. It's personality is, was very much like a young eagle, laid back easy going, compared to the much more active harris hawk at that stage.
We have had the pair of eagles for 9 years. We had hoped to produce a pure eagle, but the males wing is damaged and he is not able to balance on the back of the female when he (sparingly) attempts to copulate.
Why produce the bird?
Our thinking is that we "may" end up with a somewhat smaller eagle like bird. It may turn out like a larger more muscular Harris, or a Red tail or a Bonelli, we are not sure. One thing is for sure, we won't know if we don't try. Personally, I am most interested in its intelligence. I think the Harris and the Golden eagle are among the most intelligent falconry birds.

What is the bird like? We, like you, thought it might be a slightly smaller Golden eagle given that its mother is a golden eagle. As stated earlier, it is 26 days old and growing at a rapid pace. It is standing up and running around the nest much to the disappointment of the mother who is trying to feed it. By the weekend, my brother in-law feels it will be well feathered on its back. It has a small black tail already showing.
I have not seen the bird for almost a week, . The beak is somewhere in the middle Harris/Eagle, with a large head.

In terms of size, it does not appear to be anywhere near the size of an eagle. Perhaps 4-5 lbs when full grown. Keep in mind we don't know the sex, so it could be a male which will make it appear even smaller then its parents. It appears to have a really good build. It has legs and feet like an eagle, feathered down the leg.
I will see the bird on the weekend and do my best to send a couple good pictures for you to see.

What are our plans:
The bird is not for sale. We want to fly the bird. We are falconers first and breeders second. We both have approx 30 years each flying birds. My brother in-law is an extremely good falconer flying mostly goshawks so the bird will be in excellent hands.

On a personal level, we are very proud of what we have accomplished to date. I am particularly proud of what my brother in law did as he is the one who did along with another one of our friends did the insemination with a non compliant eagle. If you don't know how difficult it is, ask an eagle breeder!

We will do our best to keep you posted as we learn more about the bird.

Thank you for taking interest in what we have done.


Very interesting, Simon. Can't wait to see some photos and hear how it turns out. Will you and Steve be attending the Canadian meet again this year? It's looking like a banner year for duck hawking.

Regards,

Steve

DavidGallagher 13-07-2010 06:11 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartze (Post 1494961)
Very interesting, Simon. Can't wait to see some photos and hear how it turns out. Will you and Steve be attending the Canadian meet again this year? It's looking like a banner year for duck hawking.

Regards,

Steve

would also like to see some pictures

gd luck with the bird im really interested in this and how it turns out

RedNoseK9 13-07-2010 06:18 PM

Re: Harris X Goldie
 
poor analagy indeed,

Wez


Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu28 (Post 1494927)
Its irrelevant wether its to my taste. thats not important.

I just wanted to know , what they hope to achieve , why they felt what they had was not good enough.

Just because you can , does not explain why.
you could beat a guy up just because you can, the rozzers would still want to know why.

( bad analagy i know , but your into your fighting )



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