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  #11  
Old 13-07-2010, 07:36 PM
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PlantBreeder PlantBreeder is offline
Tim Perry
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Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Thank you Simon Etherington for a well balanced, sensible report.

I for one wish you every success, and await photos eagerly.

There is no need whatsoever to feel you have to justify your actions to anybody.

Please keep this very informative thread going.

All the very best, Tim.
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  #12  
Old 13-07-2010, 07:37 PM
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Johny Johny is offline
John formerly It's Alright Ma
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Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by goshawk007 View Post
Good day, along with my brother in-law, we are the owner breeders of the Harris-Eagle cross.
I thought the last few emails provided a good time for me to tell you a little bit about the bird you all show great interest in.
I won't talk about the ethics as I think it is another subject and is not really what most people are truly interested in.
The young bird is now 26 days old. We don't know the sex yet. The baby has been raised by the mother and adopted father golden eagle since it was 10 days old.

The young bird was produced by inseminating a non imprinted rehab female eagle using semen from an imprint harris. It was hatched in 35 days, not the normal 45 of a regular eagle. This is extremely interesting given the mother is the eagle! It hatched as easily as any bird we have hatched. At birth it weighed 91 grams. at 9 days it had grown to 331 grams and was consuming its own weight in food daily. It's personality is, was very much like a young eagle, laid back easy going, compared to the much more active harris hawk at that stage.
We have had the pair of eagles for 9 years. We had hoped to produce a pure eagle, but the males wing is damaged and he is not able to balance on the back of the female when he (sparingly) attempts to copulate.
Why produce the bird?
Our thinking is that we "may" end up with a somewhat smaller eagle like bird. It may turn out like a larger more muscular Harris, or a Red tail or a Bonelli, we are not sure. One thing is for sure, we won't know if we don't try. Personally, I am most interested in its intelligence. I think the Harris and the Golden eagle are among the most intelligent falconry birds.

What is the bird like? We, like you, thought it might be a slightly smaller Golden eagle given that its mother is a golden eagle. As stated earlier, it is 26 days old and growing at a rapid pace. It is standing up and running around the nest much to the disappointment of the mother who is trying to feed it. By the weekend, my brother in-law feels it will be well feathered on its back. It has a small black tail already showing.
I have not seen the bird for almost a week, . The beak is somewhere in the middle Harris/Eagle, with a large head.

In terms of size, it does not appear to be anywhere near the size of an eagle. Perhaps 4-5 lbs when full grown. Keep in mind we don't know the sex, so it could be a male which will make it appear even smaller then its parents. It appears to have a really good build. It has legs and feet like an eagle, feathered down the leg.
I will see the bird on the weekend and do my best to send a couple good pictures for you to see.

What are our plans:
The bird is not for sale. We want to fly the bird. We are falconers first and breeders second. We both have approx 30 years each flying birds. My brother in-law is an extremely good falconer flying mostly goshawks so the bird will be in excellent hands.

On a personal level, we are very proud of what we have accomplished to date. I am particularly proud of what my brother in law did as he is the one who did along with another one of our friends did the insemination with a non compliant eagle. If you don't know how difficult it is, ask an eagle breeder!

We will do our best to keep you posted as we learn more about the bird.

Thank you for taking interest in what we have done.
An excellent informative post, sparing people much speculation.

Many thanks

Johny
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  #13  
Old 13-07-2010, 07:40 PM
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Schwartze Schwartze is offline
Steve Schwartze
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu28 View Post
I only wish to understand the " Why "
thats all.
I'll try to answer that question...

For somebody, somewhere in the world, this hybrid may turn out to be the best bird for their needs in the same way that the gyrXperegrine tiercel is the best for me. Far too many out there don't understand the value of certain hybrids because they can't look past their own needs, and can't imagine that life is any different in other parts of the world. I don't look down on people who fly pure gyrs or peregrines. I have flown them myself and they can be great. But when the rubber hits the road, day in, day out the tiercel hybrid will consistently outperform the pure gyrs and pure peregrines here in southern Alberta, and lose fewer days in the field due to weather extremes. This is not because they are "better", but rather because they fit our unique set of needs better than the others. The concept that nature has designed raptors to perfection already, and that there is no room for improvement, is one that really has no merit when one considers that most falconers ask their birds to do something quite different from what their counterpart does in the wild. On the surface and to the uninitiated it looks the same, but what most falconers do with their hawks is very different from what those same hawks do in the wild.

So this golden eagleXharris' hawk hybrid might have the same value to a falconer somewhere in the world who has their own unique set of needs and goals in falconry. I think it's fitting that Ken brought this to light because he's the first guy I think of who would be a great candidate for such a hybrid with his dedicated pursuit of the prairie hare.

Why? The long and short... Simon and Steve may have finally produced somebody's perfect falconry bird.

Anyways, I can't wait to see and hear more.

Regards,

Steve
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  #14  
Old 13-07-2010, 07:51 PM
Goshawk007 Goshawk007 is offline
Simon Etherington
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 107
Unhappy Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartze View Post
I'll try to answer that question...

For somebody, somewhere in the world, this hybrid may turn out to be the best bird for their needs in the same way that the gyrXperegrine tiercel is the best for me. Far too many out there don't understand the value of certain hybrids because they can't look past their own needs, and can't imagine that life is any different in other parts of the world. I don't look down on people who fly pure gyrs or peregrines. I have flown them myself and they can be great. But when the rubber hits the road, day in, day out the tiercel hybrid will consistently outperform the pure gyrs and pure peregrines here in southern Alberta, and lose fewer days in the field due to weather extremes. This is not because they are "better", but rather because they fit our unique set of needs better than the others. The concept that nature has designed raptors to perfection already, and that there is no room for improvement, is one that really has no merit when one considers that most falconers ask their birds to do something quite different from what their counterpart does in the wild. On the surface and to the uninitiated it looks the same, but what most falconers do with their hawks is very different from what those same hawks do in the wild.

So this golden eagleXharris' hawk hybrid might have the same value to a falconer somewhere in the world who has their own unique set of needs and goals in falconry. I think it's fitting that Ken brought this to light because he's the first guy I think of who would be a great candidate for such a hybrid with his dedicated pursuit of the prairie hare.

Why? The long and short... Simon and Steve may have finally produced somebody's perfect falconry bird.

Anyways, I can't wait to see and hear more.

Regards,

Steve
Steve, I have a couple pictures of the bird when its 9 days old. Frankly there is nothing unusual about the bird to see at that age.

Also, can someone send a step by step of how you upload pictures. I know a little about raptors, but even less about how you uplad a picture.

Steve, regarding going out west. Steven and I have talked about it. As you might guess, we were wondering if there is any good jack hawking out there.
Years ago we went to Moose Jaw Sask. there were tons of them . Now I hear they are harder to find. Any assistance on that subject, would be great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu28 View Post
Hi

Thanks for the update.

But i still dont understand why.

You have clearly said ( by not mentioning ) its not for medical reasons like Tim (plantbreeder ) was defending the decision over.

You say to get a smaller Eagle, like a Bonelli !!!

If you want to fly a small Bonelli breed one and fly that.
Or even like a muscular Red Tail fly one and get it super fit then.

As it will atill only catch what the above can catch.

Science wise it is a great achievment, and a skilled one to do breeding wise.
And you clearly have vast experiance with birds.

I in no way wish to sound rude, and you certainly have no reason to explain yourselves, especially not to me.
I only wish to understand the " Why "

thats all.
Slightly off topic, but we are trying to breed Bonelli's . We got them in early 2010, so I don't think they were acclimated to the "Taj Mahal" of chambers we built for them in time to breed this year.
We have high hopes for next season. They are still calling and playing with sticks even now.
Likely the warm weather and photo period play a big part in successfully breeding them. But I digress.
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  #15  
Old 13-07-2010, 09:46 PM
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Stu28 Stu28 is offline
Stuart Colvin
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Herts
Posts: 543
Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by goshawk007 View Post
Steve, I have a couple pictures of the bird when its 9 days old. Frankly there is nothing unusual about the bird to see at that age.

Also, can someone send a step by step of how you upload pictures. I know a little about raptors, but even less about how you uplad a picture.

Steve, regarding going out west. Steven and I have talked about it. As you might guess, we were wondering if there is any good jack hawking out there.
Years ago we went to Moose Jaw Sask. there were tons of them . Now I hear they are harder to find. Any assistance on that subject, would be great.




Slightly off topic, but we are trying to breed Bonelli's . We got them in early 2010, so I don't think they were acclimated to the "Taj Mahal" of chambers we built for them in time to breed this year.
We have high hopes for next season. They are still calling and playing with sticks even now.
Likely the warm weather and photo period play a big part in successfully breeding them. But I digress.

Thank you for explaing the "Why" i appreciate your time in doing so.
I look forward to the pictures when you have got some.

Wez we cant all be gods can we !
I did say if was a naff analagy.
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  #16  
Old 13-07-2010, 09:49 PM
Goshawk007 Goshawk007 is offline
Simon Etherington
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Default Re: Harris X Goldie

No problem
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  #17  
Old 13-07-2010, 10:08 PM
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DavidGallagher DavidGallagher is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 2,920
Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantBreeder View Post
Thank you Simon Etherington for a well balanced, sensible report.

I for one wish you every success, and await photos eagerly.

There is no need whatsoever to feel you have to justify your actions to anybody.

Please keep this very informative thread going.

All the very best, Tim.
Boom boom mate

As tim said you have to justify what you are doing to no1

As i recall there was a goshawk x buzzard, chilean blue eagle x buzzard, harris x coopers

All of these are crossing genus accipiter x buteo, aquila x buteo whatever!!!!!

Im sure it takes some skill to do so something many falconers and breeders couldnt

Atb david
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  #18  
Old 13-07-2010, 10:13 PM
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SakerJack SakerJack is offline
Ken Hooke
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 3,435
Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartze View Post
I'll try to answer that question...

For somebody, somewhere in the world, this hybrid may turn out to be the best bird for their needs in the same way that the gyrXperegrine tiercel is the best for me. Far too many out there don't understand the value of certain hybrids because they can't look past their own needs, and can't imagine that life is any different in other parts of the world. I don't look down on people who fly pure gyrs or peregrines. I have flown them myself and they can be great. But when the rubber hits the road, day in, day out the tiercel hybrid will consistently outperform the pure gyrs and pure peregrines here in southern Alberta, and lose fewer days in the field due to weather extremes. This is not because they are "better", but rather because they fit our unique set of needs better than the others. The concept that nature has designed raptors to perfection already, and that there is no room for improvement, is one that really has no merit when one considers that most falconers ask their birds to do something quite different from what their counterpart does in the wild. On the surface and to the uninitiated it looks the same, but what most falconers do with their hawks is very different from what those same hawks do in the wild.

So this golden eagleXharris' hawk hybrid might have the same value to a falconer somewhere in the world who has their own unique set of needs and goals in falconry. I think it's fitting that Ken brought this to light because he's the first guy I think of who would be a great candidate for such a hybrid with his dedicated pursuit of the prairie hare.

Why? The long and short... Simon and Steve may have finally produced somebody's perfect falconry bird.

Anyways, I can't wait to see and hear more.

Regards,

Steve
Thanks Steve,, I would SOOOOOO like to get my hands on a bird like that!!
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  #19  
Old 13-07-2010, 10:25 PM
Stu28's Avatar
Stu28 Stu28 is offline
Stuart Colvin
Passage
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Herts
Posts: 543
Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartze View Post
I'll try to answer that question...

For somebody, somewhere in the world, this hybrid may turn out to be the best bird for their needs in the same way that the gyrXperegrine tiercel is the best for me. Far too many out there don't understand the value of certain hybrids because they can't look past their own needs, and can't imagine that life is any different in other parts of the world. I don't look down on people who fly pure gyrs or peregrines. I have flown them myself and they can be great. But when the rubber hits the road, day in, day out the tiercel hybrid will consistently outperform the pure gyrs and pure peregrines here in southern Alberta, and lose fewer days in the field due to weather extremes. This is not because they are "better", but rather because they fit our unique set of needs better than the others. The concept that nature has designed raptors to perfection already, and that there is no room for improvement, is one that really has no merit when one considers that most falconers ask their birds to do something quite different from what their counterpart does in the wild. On the surface and to the uninitiated it looks the same, but what most falconers do with their hawks is very different from what those same hawks do in the wild.

So this golden eagleXharris' hawk hybrid might have the same value to a falconer somewhere in the world who has their own unique set of needs and goals in falconry. I think it's fitting that Ken brought this to light because he's the first guy I think of who would be a great candidate for such a hybrid with his dedicated pursuit of the prairie hare.

Why? The long and short... Simon and Steve may have finally produced somebody's perfect falconry bird.

Anyways, I can't wait to see and hear more.

Regards,

Steve
Thankyou also i missed adding you in last message too goshawk007.
That also was a great way of putting things.
It takes alot of patience doing new things and giving well thought out and constructed answers too natural questions and fears.

Again i look forward to the pics
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  #20  
Old 13-07-2010, 11:30 PM
Altai Altai is offline
David Wayne
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: midlands, uk
Posts: 772
Default Re: Harris X Goldie

Quote:
Originally Posted by goshawk007 View Post
Good day, along with my brother in-law, we are the owner breeders of the Harris-Eagle cross.
I thought the last few emails provided a good time for me to tell you a little bit about the bird you all show great interest in.
I won't talk about the ethics as I think it is another subject and is not really what most people are truly interested in.
The young bird is now 26 days old. We don't know the sex yet. The baby has been raised by the mother and adopted father golden eagle since it was 10 days old.

The young bird was produced by inseminating a non imprinted rehab female eagle using semen from an imprint harris. It was hatched in 35 days, not the normal 45 of a regular eagle. This is extremely interesting given the mother is the eagle! It hatched as easily as any bird we have hatched. At birth it weighed 91 grams. at 9 days it had grown to 331 grams and was consuming its own weight in food daily. It's personality is, was very much like a young eagle, laid back easy going, compared to the much more active harris hawk at that stage.
We have had the pair of eagles for 9 years. We had hoped to produce a pure eagle, but the males wing is damaged and he is not able to balance on the back of the female when he (sparingly) attempts to copulate.
Why produce the bird?
Our thinking is that we "may" end up with a somewhat smaller eagle like bird. It may turn out like a larger more muscular Harris, or a Red tail or a Bonelli, we are not sure. One thing is for sure, we won't know if we don't try. Personally, I am most interested in its intelligence. I think the Harris and the Golden eagle are among the most intelligent falconry birds.

What is the bird like? We, like you, thought it might be a slightly smaller Golden eagle given that its mother is a golden eagle. As stated earlier, it is 26 days old and growing at a rapid pace. It is standing up and running around the nest much to the disappointment of the mother who is trying to feed it. By the weekend, my brother in-law feels it will be well feathered on its back. It has a small black tail already showing.
I have not seen the bird for almost a week, . The beak is somewhere in the middle Harris/Eagle, with a large head.

In terms of size, it does not appear to be anywhere near the size of an eagle. Perhaps 4-5 lbs when full grown. Keep in mind we don't know the sex, so it could be a male which will make it appear even smaller then its parents. It appears to have a really good build. It has legs and feet like an eagle, feathered down the leg.
I will see the bird on the weekend and do my best to send a couple good pictures for you to see.

What are our plans:
The bird is not for sale. We want to fly the bird. We are falconers first and breeders second. We both have approx 30 years each flying birds. My brother in-law is an extremely good falconer flying mostly goshawks so the bird will be in excellent hands.

On a personal level, we are very proud of what we have accomplished to date. I am particularly proud of what my brother in law did as he is the one who did along with another one of our friends did the insemination with a non compliant eagle. If you don't know how difficult it is, ask an eagle breeder!

We will do our best to keep you posted as we learn more about the bird.

Thank you for taking interest in what we have done.
Well done. I look foreward to seeing the photo's and hearing how the bird hunts. This is the way we learn.
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