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  #1  
Old 23-07-2013, 09:06 AM
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RamishHawk RamishHawk is offline
Steve Skinner
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Default Passage Falcons

I have just read an article in the BFC journel. And couldn't help thinking along these lines, that British Falconers can only dream about flying wonderful passage falcons careering all over the sky with amazing exploits, or only read about our American cousins doing it. Wouldn't it be so much better for us reading about British Falconers doing the same in a British publication, instead of our cousins across the pond. We shouldn't be worrying about being politically correct & not upsetting the band wagon. Perhaps more effort should be directed towards bringing this about for the sake of future generations of falconers, so our true heritage can be realized, not just a pipe dream.

ps for years iv been reading about the exploits of our American cousins & jolly good it is to. How long is it going to be a dream, perhaps for ever.

Atb steve.
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  #2  
Old 23-07-2013, 02:18 PM
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Scott
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

It was a 4o year wait for US falconers to regain access to passage peregrines. A whole generation of falconers missed out. But still we had access to passage prairie falcons in the interim. The basis of the argument for wild take is that falconry does not biologically impact raptor populations.

Here's an example of this logic seen in a recent ruling on a permit to stop saving young peregrines that perish by drowning.
http://news.yahoo.com/feds-falcons-r...133858209.html

What falconer wouldn't jump at a chance to fly one of the peregrines albeit they're not passagers.

-- scott
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  #3  
Old 23-07-2013, 03:53 PM
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RamishHawk RamishHawk is offline
Steve Skinner
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird_Dog View Post
It was a 4o year wait for US falconers to regain access to passage peregrines. A whole generation of falconers missed out. But still we had access to passage prairie falcons in the interim. The basis of the argument for wild take is that falconry does not biologically impact raptor populations.

Here's an example of this logic seen in a recent ruling on a permit to stop saving young peregrines that perish by drowning.
http://news.yahoo.com/feds-falcons-r...133858209.html

What falconer wouldn't jump at a chance to fly one of the peregrines albeit they're not passagers.

-- scott
I couldn't agree more with you Scot. I am glad you've got access to passage birds, i suppose ill never get a chance to fly a wild eyas let alone a passager. the article was informative i enjoyed it thanks for posting it. There is a problem in the UK with the increase of Raptors causing problems for the Pigeon racing fraternity its believed by some that there taking the law into there own hands. This behavior cannot be condoned, but is understandable especially when some homing pigeons pass hands for thousands of pounds. Perhaps these birds should be trapped & given to falconers with permits, like you do in the states with the depredating Golden Eagles in Wyoming.

Atb steve
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2014, 09:12 AM
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RamishHawk RamishHawk is offline
Steve Skinner
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Sorry folks for putting this back on, i don't mean to offend any breeders iv done my fair share over the years. But this time of the year always gets my juices flowing when i start watching an over abundance of wild peregrines, i don't want to offend our American cousins either and do enjoy reading about there exploits with wild taken birds, being honest i am rather envious of them and keep dreaming of the day i can do the same before i get to old. Once again i apologise for bringing this old chestnut up. Are there any older falconers out there who feel the same? perhaps you could put your thoughts and feelings down, maybe some one can more eloquently explain the advantage's to a younger generation.
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2014, 01:46 PM
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Sue2 Sue2 is offline
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamishHawk View Post
I have just read an article in the BFC journel. And couldn't help thinking along these lines, that British Falconers can only dream about flying wonderful passage falcons careering all over the sky with amazing exploits,................. Perhaps more effort should be directed towards bringing this about for the sake of future generations of falconers, so our true heritage can be realized, not just a pipe dream.................................... How long is it going to be a dream, perhaps for ever.
atb steve.
Hi Steve

The BFC is working hard with the relevant authorities to bring this about, albeit in a controlled way in the first instance.

Regards
Sue
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2014, 03:42 PM
CloakDaggerTiercel CloakDaggerTiercel is offline
Nick Curry
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

It would be wonderful to be able to fly a passage hawks in the UK in the future.
It is one one facet of a peregrine that is not available in the captive population: ie the skills it has picked up in it's formative months.

However without wanting to pour too much cold water over the whole idea there is going to be a clear legal and therefore practical road block to the idea: the Animal Welfare Act 2006.

Even if NE permitted a licence to take said passage bird, the traditional trapping techniques used all over the world to trap wild raptors are highly unlikely to stand up to challenge (by any group or individual) under this Act. Once one prosecution is made NE will probably withdraw the licences or specify that the passage birds must only be caught using dead lure birds or teddy bears. I believe the latter are under consideration.

A licence from NE to trap a passage bird would be a fantastic achievement but legally you would still be wide open if you intended to trap a passage like it is usually done. I wouldn't rely on the licence, especially as some in the NE wildlife department have very little knowledge of raptors of nature in general, as scary as that is, and any licence will be loaded with get out clause small print about other Acts anyway.

Nick
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2014, 03:52 PM
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Raptor_Man Raptor_Man is offline
David
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

I sent an email off a while ago just to see what the reply would be this is it

Dear Mr

Thank you for your request below which has been forwarded to me for a reply.
There is no application form to use to apply for a licence to take birds of Prey from the Wild for use in Falconry. Any requests should be made in writing.
For your information you will wish to be aware that very few requests for licences to take wild birds of prey for the use of falconry have been made in recent years, nor have any licences been issued.
Although Section 16(1)(e) of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 provides Natural England with a discretionary power to issue licences to take birds for falconry purposes, such licences are granted only in very exceptional circumstances. Additionally, if such a licence was granted, a separate licence under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) may also be required.
In recent years, Natural England’s view (supported by the JNCC) has been that there is a sufficient number of the falcon/hawk species most commonly used for falconry already in captivity, to meet all current and future demands from falconers and aviculturists. As part of any assessment of a request for a licence, Natural England has to be satisfied that no other satisfactory solution exists. Any person wishing to submit an application to take a wild falcon would need to make sufficient representation that this is not the case. When considering applications the following requirements need to be met and any application should include or explain the following details:
  • You should explain clearly for what purpose you wish, or need, to take the bird from the wild. Increasing costs of captive bred birds would not be sufficient grounds to issue a licence.
  • You should ascertain the number of birds currently in captivity and show that captive bred birds are not available from anywhere within the UK or the European Union.
  • Who you contacted to try to source a captive bred bird, and when and how was this contact made.
  • You should also explain how and where you intend to take the bird from the wild, and research and provide details of the local population of the species.
Some general points you should be aware of are:-
  • Birds should only be taken for use in a co-ordinated breeding programme through a club or a number of club members. If a concern is that there is insufficient purity within the captive gene pool, then any birds taken should be used to improve that gene pool.
  • The birds and their offspring should be used to satisfy any future demands for the species.
  • Any licensed taking of birds should not create future demand for taking more birds from the wild.
  • Birds should not be taken for the purpose of colour mutation.
  • The taking of the birds must have no detrimental effect on the conservation status of the species.
Whilst there is a widespread feeling that the wild peregrine population is ‘saturated’ and suitable for ‘sustainable use’ once again, current estimates of the wild peregrine population in the UK vary from between 1200 and 1800 pairs, with most in the 1500 pair range. Urban populations are certainly increasing and the species is exploiting different habitats and environments than it has previously. However in some rural areas there remains concern for the population. A national peregrine survey is being undertaken this year and the results of that survey will give us a much better indication of the true level and extent of the peregrine population once that is complete and published.
Kind regards

Chris
Customer Services
Natural England, 1st Floor, Temple Quay House, 2 The Square, Bristol, BS1 6EB
Tel: 0845 601 4523 Fax: 0845 601 3438
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2014, 04:14 PM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Falconers have proven to be very resourceful in the past and would be even more so if a passage Peregrine was on offer. I'm sure a hungry young Peregrine would come in to a clockwork fluttering decoy, or would NE be opposed to that too?
Perhaps it's not the 'live lure bird' that's the issue, maybe it's the bow net or noose carpet/harness? There must be some way around this 'problem', whatever it is?

Nick, I just read your post again, more carefully this time

Obviously it's the live lure bird that's the problem. That's easy......someone could easily come up with a wee motor that could be inserted into a dead woodie (to make it flutter) that could be switched on and off from a distance with a transmitter. It might even be better than a live bird in some cases.....don't some off them just huddle down in the grass after the first toss?

And obviously its not NE that I should have questioned...sorry
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2014, 04:32 PM
CloakDaggerTiercel CloakDaggerTiercel is offline
Nick Curry
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Hi Mike,

I'd like to think that kind of method could be effective.
Trying to catch a successful predator (obviously it wouldn't be a passage bird if it wasnt) with a dummy is going to be challenging, but I guess no different to fly fishing in a way. Thats hard enough mind!

Nick
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2014, 05:12 PM
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Tony James Tony James is offline
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Something that seems to be forgotten amongst all the talk of passage hawks, is that in reality, in the UK that is, is that there is a lack of genuine passaging routes.
We all like to imagine it would be easy to take a passage peregrine, but without a Valkenswaard or Padre Island, it wouldn't be as simple as some imagine.

Regards,

Tony.
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