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  #11  
Old 07-04-2014, 05:38 PM
CloakDaggerTiercel CloakDaggerTiercel is offline
Nick Curry
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

We may not be on a defined passage route having a largely stationary population, but any of the coastal areas are very well populated autumn and winter destination points.
The lack of funnel points would add hugely to the challenge but it's not insurmountable. The means, legal and practical, to catch a passage falcon would present much more of an obstacle, after gaining a licence obviously.

But I think possibly there is a greater chance of being granted a licence for a passage bird than eyass, given the great captive flock that we have, even if it is debateable whther they are now readily available. Perhaps the strong Gulf market (much of it under contract) is a justification in itself for an eyas take?

Nick
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  #12  
Old 07-04-2014, 06:26 PM
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Tony James Tony James is offline
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

I wonder how many falconers would manage to trap a passage peregrine if they were granted permission?
I'm sure I wouldn't. At least not within the necessary requirements of a licence to do so.

I suppose the mere fact that for long periods of time (during much of which we were a country full of keepers and countrymen of all kinds, well versed in the art of trapping just about everything) we relied on hawk trappers in other countries to supply passage peregrines, at no small trouble or cost, indicates something worthy of note.

Regards,

Tony.
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  #13  
Old 07-04-2014, 06:43 PM
CloakDaggerTiercel CloakDaggerTiercel is offline
Nick Curry
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

We relied on hawk trappers in other countries because we wanted the falcons alive!

Nick

If we were permitted to use methods that our American friends employ, and I'm not suggesting we ever will be, I would be confident of trapping a passage falcon?
Like any form of hunting, it would require the necessary hours spent in the field, field craft and maybe being lucky in putting your self in front of a brown bird. But like any country pursuit the more hours you spend out there, the luckier you get. We have enough knowledge of trapping gained from others past and present to give standardised techniques a good go. It's not rocket science, but the interface with the passage bird would beroabably harder to set up?

Nick
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  #14  
Old 07-04-2014, 06:58 PM
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Tony James Tony James is offline
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Quote:
Originally Posted by CloakDaggerTiercel View Post
We relied on hawk trappers in other countries because we wanted the falcons alive!

Nick

If we were permitted to use methods that our American friends employ, and I'm not suggesting we ever will be, I would be confident of trapping a passage falcon?
Like any form of hunting, it would require the necessary hours spent in the field, field craft and maybe being lucky in putting your self in front of a brown bird. But like any country pursuit the more hours you spend out there, the luckier you get. We have enough knowledge of trapping gained from others past and present to give standardised techniques a good go. It's not rocket science, but the interface with the passage bird would beroabably harder to set up?

Nick
I don't think it's quite that simple myself.

For centuries we were able to call upon british keepers and countrymen to secure live eyasses for falconry, yet the demand for passagers had to be satisfied by trappers in places where it was more easily done (and let's not forget, even in places like Valkenswaard with age old passaging routes and where the most experienced trappers were, it was still far from easy).

For a variety of reasons, sedentary populations in the land of plenty don't lend themselves to the lure of the trap.

Tony.
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  #15  
Old 07-04-2014, 09:13 PM
CloakDaggerTiercel CloakDaggerTiercel is offline
Nick Curry
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

You've just contradicted yourself. You say British trappers secured passage birds for falconry but then claim sedentary populations don't lend themselves to being caught? Which is it?
I prefer not to rely on ancient and imagined tales of trappers but of real living Falconers who are out there trapping passage falcons and flying them in the real world.

One day the conjecture may turn into a chance to prove each other wrong.......even if it is with a robotic woodie

Until then, well we can all make an omelette and chew the cud some more!
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  #16  
Old 07-04-2014, 09:22 PM
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Tony James Tony James is offline
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

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Originally Posted by CloakDaggerTiercel View Post
You've just contradicted yourself. You say British trappers secured passage birds for falconry but then claim sedentary populations don't lend themselves to being caught? Which is it?

One day the conjecture may turn into a chance to prove each other wrong.......
Until then, well we can all make an omelette.
I don't think I was contradictory Nick. What I'm saying is that demand from british falconers for passage peregrines has largely had to be satisfied by trappers in countries where the realistic opportunities to trap them exist.

Give just a little thought to the history, then consider the difficulties involved even in such things as taking up even hacked peregrines that have begun to kill for themselves.

The dream and the reality are poles apart, and I for one would be nervous of pushing for a passage take (irrespective of all other considerations) because in reality, even if allowed, is extremely unlikely to be fulfilled.

Tony.
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:03 PM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Get yerself a female Peregrine that vocalises upon grabbing the lure (or quarry) a bit like one or two of Sam's hawks have done, and train her to the quadcopter (the kite is dead) then fly her to great heights during the first hour or two of daylight in areas known to be favourite haunts of wild Peregrines and they'll come in. Just be ready for it and it shouldn't be too hard.
Anyone who has such a hawk could rent it out
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:29 PM
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RamishHawk RamishHawk is offline
Steve Skinner
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

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Originally Posted by Sue2 View Post
Hi Steve

The BFC is working hard with the relevant authorities to bring this about, albeit in a controlled way in the first instance.

Regards
Sue
Hi Sue thanks for the reply, i personally believe passage birds will only be a pipe dream, but i would settle for a late taken eyas fed on the very best of natural fare with all the advantage's of natural anti bodies passed on by there parents, plus early prey recognition, it would be a close second for me.

Atb Steve.
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  #19  
Old 08-04-2014, 12:03 AM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

None of them would necessarily be better suited to our requirements as gamehawkers than what is available from captive bred sources at the moment........ like the ones Steve just described 'Early prey recognition'....why would you want them chasing all sorts of dickey birds? Legal quarry usually works better and most wild Peregrines are not so selective.

(It wasn't a blanket statement...I said 'necessarily')
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  #20  
Old 08-04-2014, 07:27 AM
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Scott
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Default Re: Passage Falcons

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomOlivia View Post
None of them would necessarily be better suited to our requirements as gamehawkers than what is available from captive bred sources at the moment........ like the ones Steve just described 'Early prey recognition'....why would you want them chasing all sorts of dickey birds? Legal quarry usually works better and most wild Peregrines are not so selective.

(It wasn't a blanket statement...I said 'necessarily')
I think there's one important difference between a passage and captive-reared falcon. That is a passage has overcome the risk of starvation and survived independently. All things being equal (eg., fitness) that one psychological difference makes a passage falcon superior. Also I'd point out that passage falcons will wed to the quarry you select. Checking on other birds really hasn't been a problem for my passage peregrine - a least not after she started catching ducks. On gamehawking ducks, a passage peregrine is the best it can get IMO.

-- Scott
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