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  #11  
Old 08-02-2008, 05:49 PM
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Rob
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

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Originally Posted by OutFlying View Post
Hello Rob,
Plenty of very good imprint goshawks being flown, with plenty of different methods.



Jim.
I know....reading my post I sound a bit direspectful to all the others >>>>it wasnt meant to be. More about these methods please
This yr I ''got out a bit'' and saw some really impressive imprints....the better ones seemed better because the owners...got out an caught plenty but i guess the same could be said of the PR birds.

My hat is humbly lifted to all you chaps who produce good imprints and equally to your wives or partners (P.C.).


Anyone ''swap'' imprints????? alot of trust in that I guess.
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  #12  
Old 08-02-2008, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

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Originally Posted by OutFlying View Post
Nice one Wez,
I'll use pretty much the same method as last year but with a few small variations to resolve some issues I had with Flynn.

Basic outline -
Fully raised indoors for the first 7 weeks.
Socialised with kids and different dogs daily.
Transported to plenty of different locations.
If left on it's own, left in front of 42" Tv on a good volume.
No lure feeding during first 7 weeks.
Never fed up on the lure, food placed to side of lure.
No carcass feeding during first 9 weeks.
No weight reduction or recall training till fully feathered.
Very quick weight reduction when hard penned and hunted immediatly.

Jim.
I admire the skill that goes into a well mannered imprint goss, I have never done it myself and to be honest the idea scares me. How do you manage recall without food on a lure? Do you ever call your imprint to the fist? at any stage?, Why no carcase feeding early on? Excuse my ignorance only I have read and reread McDermots book, and understand his thinking and I was not aware Goss imprinters had managed to improve on his methods, your thoughts would be appreciated.
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2008, 10:52 PM
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Jim Entwistle
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

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Originally Posted by David Rampling Wildlife Art View Post
I admire the skill that goes into a well mannered imprint goss, I have never done it myself and to be honest the idea scares me. How do you manage recall without food on a lure? Do you ever call your imprint to the fist? at any stage?, Why no carcase feeding early on? Excuse my ignorance only I have read and reread McDermots book, and understand his thinking and I was not aware Goss imprinters had managed to improve on his methods, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Hello David,
I prefer only to offer the right amount of food that is required, an imprint on a carcass has a reason to mantle etc even when it eaten enough as there's still something present for it to be become posessive of.

With reference to lure recalls during initial training, at first place a very small piece of meat on the lure (nothing that the goshawk will take any time eating) - get the gos to fly to the lure as soon as the gos feeds place a good portion of food to the side of the lure. The gos leaves the lure (nothing to become possessive of) eats the food and then nothing left, no mantling the gos can be picked up. As training develops, no food is required on the lure as the gos knows food will offered if it returns. At the same time your also teaching the gos the ability to trade off kills, my gos would leave any kill without hesitation for either the lure or a chick head etc.

I have recalled imprints to the fist without any problems but seemed to get a better mannered eyass imprint with only using lure recalls.


Jim.
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2008, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

Jim

Good to hear from you.

Have you read the Y2K book and how does your method relate to this?
Would you consider the bridging method pete describes?
I think Petes imprinting is along the same lines Mcdermot.

What made you not do any carcass feeding with him until he was much older?
My theory for this year was a mixture of Mcdermots book and principles based on previous experience raising and training african greys with action to reaction work.
Adding to this any details from you i managed to get while bending your ear at the fair and on the phone

Over the passed years my main hunting bird has lived inside the conservatory which adjoins the lounge so it is in constant view of the mayhem. For a while i did get permission to bring it up stairs but that got revoked by the guvnor.

I have been lucky since october to be lent a female imprint gos to fly for the back end of the season. She has a few issues but it has taught me lot particular how the mood changes once they are killing and occupied.

The other thing that hasnt been wrote about is the diet people feed the birds. My main view is that the stronger bigger boned birds are fed a rich quality diet and look that way. Fresh food or the best parts of a lower quality item.
Your next diary can you add food weights and ingrediants.

I think you need to have clear plan and set route. Oh and a understanding wife with a mop and bucket.
Any spelling mistakes blame the Amaretto..........

Regards
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  #15  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutFlying View Post
Hello David,
I prefer only to offer the right amount of food that is required, an imprint on a carcass has a reason to mantle etc even when it eaten enough as there's still something present for it to be become posessive of.

With reference to lure recalls during initial training, at first place a very small piece of meat on the lure (nothing that the goshawk will take any time eating) - get the gos to fly to the lure as soon as the gos feeds place a good portion of food to the side of the lure. The gos leaves the lure (nothing to become possessive of) eats the food and then nothing left, no mantling the gos can be picked up. As training develops, no food is required on the lure as the gos knows food will offered if it returns. At the same time your also teaching the gos the ability to trade off kills, my gos would leave any kill without hesitation for either the lure or a chick head etc.

I have recalled imprints to the fist without any problems but seemed to get a better mannered eyass imprint with only using lure recalls.


Jim.

Sorry i was typing when you wrote this answer.
I would call my PR back to the glove with a rabbit leg. She would pluck the fur on the leg to be traded with a clean piece off meat on the floor which she would eat and then jump up to the fist without any reward. It was a diversion of aggression and once she was in the rountine she would recall great distances and it worked well.
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  #16  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:02 PM
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Dave
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutFlying View Post
Hello David,
I prefer only to offer the right amount of food that is required, an imprint on a carcass has a reason to mantle etc even when it eaten enough as there's still something present for it to be become posessive of.

With reference to lure recalls during initial training, at first place a very small piece of meat on the lure (nothing that the goshawk will take any time eating) - get the gos to fly to the lure as soon as the gos feeds place a good portion of food to the side of the lure. The gos leaves the lure (nothing to become possessive of) eats the food and then nothing left, no mantling the gos can be picked up. As training develops, no food is required on the lure as the gos knows food will offered if it returns. At the same time your also teaching the gos the ability to trade off kills, my gos would leave any kill without hesitation for either the lure or a chick head etc.

I have recalled imprints to the fist without any problems but seemed to get a better mannered eyass imprint with only using lure recalls.


Jim.
Fascinating, and it makes sense, thanks for that.
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutFlying View Post
Hello David,
I prefer only to offer the right amount of food that is required, an imprint on a carcass has a reason to mantle etc even when it eaten enough as there's still something present for it to be become posessive of.

With reference to lure recalls during initial training, at first place a very small piece of meat on the lure (nothing that the goshawk will take any time eating) - get the gos to fly to the lure as soon as the gos feeds place a good portion of food to the side of the lure. The gos leaves the lure (nothing to become possessive of) eats the food and then nothing left, no mantling the gos can be picked up. As training develops, no food is required on the lure as the gos knows food will offered if it returns. At the same time your also teaching the gos the ability to trade off kills, my gos would leave any kill without hesitation for either the lure or a chick head etc.

I have recalled imprints to the fist without any problems but seemed to get a better mannered eyass imprint with only using lure recalls.


Jim.
hi jim. i did pretty much the same. but mine mantled on the lure. so i started to fly him to the fist and hes like a parent reared bird also no aggression and he doesn't mantle on a kill.but he can still be a bit noisy at home
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  #18  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:30 PM
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Jim Entwistle
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

Hello Mark,
Not read Pete's book yet but will be having a look.

I didn't want a McDermot type imprint again, can't stand the mantling and there is no need for all that baggie / carcass / early starting as per his methods.

A gos is hardwired by nature to kill, and I proved that no baggies or carcasses are needed with the 9 week period of growing with an imprint goshawk. Let the gos mature, reduced the weight and it will chase moving prey without the need for baggies / carcasses etc - as per any captive bred pr goshawk does once on weight.


After intial hunting and he was taking on all slips, I hardly ever fed Flynn from a kill - everything was feed on the floor and the diet was either rabbit or chick, mostly chick.

"What made me not feed from a carcass" - the wife , it wasn't a delibrate step but with the gos in the front room it was on the wifes advise. As the training progressed I noticed how much better his manners and all round behaviour was, so decided to continue without a carcass - it seemed to work very well and I did the season using this method, the imprint produced using this method was best mannered imprint goshawk even in initial training I've seen.

Jim.









Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Quite Contrary View Post
Jim

Good to hear from you.

Have you read the Y2K book and how does your method relate to this?
Would you consider the bridging method pete describes?
I think Petes imprinting is along the same lines Mcdermot.

What made you not do any carcass feeding with him until he was much older?
My theory for this year was a mixture of Mcdermots book and principles based on previous experience raising and training african greys with action to reaction work.
Adding to this any details from you i managed to get while bending your ear at the fair and on the phone

Over the passed years my main hunting bird has lived inside the conservatory which adjoins the lounge so it is in constant view of the mayhem. For a while i did get permission to bring it up stairs but that got revoked by the guvnor.

I have been lucky since october to be lent a female imprint gos to fly for the back end of the season. She has a few issues but it has taught me lot particular how the mood changes once they are killing and occupied.

The other thing that hasnt been wrote about is the diet people feed the birds. My main view is that the stronger bigger boned birds are fed a rich quality diet and look that way. Fresh food or the best parts of a lower quality item.
Your next diary can you add food weights and ingrediants.

I think you need to have clear plan and set route. Oh and a understanding wife with a mop and bucket.
Any spelling mistakes blame the Amaretto..........

Regards
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  #19  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:36 PM
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OutFlying OutFlying is offline
Jim Entwistle
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

Hello Vernon,
That's the reason I place the food away from the lure, once he moved away from the lure - I removed it and let him eat the food on bare ground, nothing to become possesive off as I would split his daily ration up into 3 or 4 recall portions.

I didn't have the bottle to try fist recalls with him as everything seemed to good to be true - so just continued using the same method all season.

Well done with the gos, what would you have done differently if you had the chance to imprint him again ?

All the best Jim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vernon View Post
hi jim. i did pretty much the same. but mine mantled on the lure. so i started to fly him to the fist and hes like a parent reared bird also no aggression and he doesn't mantle on a kill.but he can still be a bit noisy at home
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2008, 11:40 PM
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Mary Quite Contrary Mary Quite Contrary is offline
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Default Re: Imprint goshawk methods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OutFlying View Post
Hello Mark,
Not read Pete's book yet but will be having a look.

I didn't want a McDermot type imprint again, can't stand the mantling and there is no need for all that baggie / carcass / early starting as per his methods.

A gos is hardwired by nature to kill, and I proved that no baggies or carcasses are needed with the 9 week period of growing with an imprint goshawk. Let the gos mature, reduced the weight and it will chase moving prey without the need for baggies / carcasses etc - as per any captive bred pr goshawk does once on weight.


After intial hunting and he was taking on all slips, I hardly ever fed Flynn from a kill - everything was feed on the floor and the diet was either rabbit or chick, mostly chick.

"What made me not feed from a carcass" - the wife , it wasn't a delibrate step but with the gos in the front room it was on the wifes advise. As the training progressed I noticed how much better his manners and all round behaviour was, so decided to continue without a carcass - it seemed to work very well and I did the season using this method, the imprint produced using this method was best mannered imprint goshawk even in initial training I've seen.

Jim.
Jim a good mate of mine who flys a golden EGO said that the not feeding from the kill is the prefered method in europe and said it would be interesting to try with a gos. Well i now know the answer and it seem a good way forward.

The other worry for me was keeping a carcass fresh enough to use as a plate for the bird to eat from. In the summer the heat would quickly turn the meat off and so i have been thinking of cunning ways to keep it fresh but now i may not need to.
Regards
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