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  #51  
Old 25-04-2009, 10:15 PM
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Chicquera Chicquera is offline
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

A very basic judicial review here in the UK costs about $100k, this is the way government protects itself, by making any legal challenge to their power virtually impossible for the average person !
The problem is people in organisations like NAFA start to get too close to people in government and start to see them as "friends" who they expect to see their reasoning but civil servants (dont know why they're called that anymore) have very little interest in conservation other than conserving their job and salary so they have little desire to simplify anything, the more complicated they can make something the more secure they feel. Add to this the fact that main stream government aren't really that interested in conservation anyway then dept's like fws are pretty much left to do what they want and answer to no one.
At first sight a lot of what they do could be seen as incompetant but it's not incompetence, they have their own agenda and that is to stop people keeping wildlife in captivity. They use Cites to stop trade in wildlife when the whole point of Cites is that sustainable trade in wildlife is positive to conservation. If they really believed that they would not have taken the stance they have over registration for breeders of App.I. species, well, when I say App.I. that's not strictly true because the latest trade data figures show they still allow commercial trade in App.I. species such as tigers and chimps, no, this position is targetting falconers/raptor breeders. I dont know what human rights laws you have over there but certainly in the EU targetting any group or individual is a breach of their human rights, USFWS are targetting falconry just as they did in the days of Operation Falcon and without a show of force you guys are going to get hammered into the ground, for sure !


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Originally Posted by SharpTail View Post
You have this right, this struggle exemplifes differences in the stratagies used by American Falconry Conservancy(new name for the WRTC) and NAFA. The Consvancy tactic to send in a high powered Attorney, did force Interior's to ackowlege falconry birds as private property, one of very few big victories in a long time, at a great monitary cost.

NAFA usually takes a much longer term approach and lobbies behind the scene, in a much more compromising fasion, the negotiator(s) not being answerable to the general club membership, operating without transparency and willing to give away 'rights' of all falconers, club members or not.

NAFA is run by people whom are working to make American falconry, fit into and survive the transition to one world government, the American Union being the next major step on this continent. Unfortunately, "Rights" defined under US law and the United Nations are very different, the former being "GOD GIVEN", the latter UN, revokable privilege.

Us US Americans are being suscessfully divorced from our common law roots and Rights by a very powerful alliance from within and elsewhere("enemys, foreign and domestic"), kind of like reshaping a puzzle piece to make us fit into the United Nations puzzle picture. The attack is not just by the Dept. of Interior(fws's mother agency), but by all of the rest of the presidents 'Cabinet', influencing many elements of american life, constantly violating provisions of our founding documents, with new laws that are in conflict and thus far have gone unchallanged. In short, our government has become our biggest enemy, intent on making us conform to the UN mould. Attorneys whom have the brass and the power to challange on a 'RIGHTS' basis are few and far between and we, as a people, have been "educated" into believing that it is a waist of time and money to attempt it without counsel("you can't fight city hall", mentality). Attorneys here, must be a member of the "Bar" and are subject to centure and revocation if they "Do not play Ball".
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  #52  
Old 25-04-2009, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

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Originally Posted by Moritz View Post
Hi Pete,
Thanks so much for the little summary.

Why were there representatives from other countries at the hearing? Is that normal? Also where can I see the video?
Mo
Go here and click on View Archived Video:
Http://resourcescommittee.house.gov/...view&extid=246
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  #53  
Old 26-04-2009, 01:05 AM
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

Import CITES is taking 8 month plus right now. I have a friend in his 8th month and they have (CITES) everything they need. The sellers of the birds hes importing are ****ed and do not understand why 8 Months and still no permit even though hes in a coop and paid all his fees and done everything asked!!!

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Originally Posted by Pete J. View Post
I agree, the system isn't working. It wouldn't break my heart to see it spooped! I'm still waiting on my permit renewal for my breeding project and that was submitted MONTHS ago to USFWS...does that give you any idea of how behind they are? I think an overview of the entire process is in order because there is essentially nothing done in a timely fashion any longer. And while we have e-reporting available and much of what we could do could be done online if they only would get someone with some business sense (e-commerce) they would/could cut down on so much. I'm sure that if they put this in the hands of a private consulting business that they could get all of these things under control in NO TIME!!
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  #54  
Old 26-04-2009, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

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Originally Posted by Mark Moglich View Post
Import CITES is taking 8 month plus right now. I have a friend in his 8th month and they have (CITES) everything they need. The sellers of the birds hes importing are ****ed and do not understand why 8 Months and still no permit even though hes in a coop and paid all his fees and done everything asked!!!
That is ridiculous!! They need to get over themselves and get back to work! I would be thinking that a lawyer is in order at this point.
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  #55  
Old 26-04-2009, 05:20 AM
SharpTail SharpTail is offline
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

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Originally Posted by Chicquera View Post
A very basic judicial review here in the UK costs about $100k, this is the way government protects itself, by making any legal challenge to their power virtually impossible for the average person !
The problem is people in organisations like NAFA start to get too close to people in government and start to see them as "friends" who they expect to see their reasoning but civil servants (dont know why they're called that anymore) have very little interest in conservation other than conserving their job and salary so they have little desire to simplify anything, the more complicated they can make something the more secure they feel. Add to this the fact that main stream government aren't really that interested in conservation anyway then dept's like fws are pretty much left to do what they want and answer to no one.
At first sight a lot of what they do could be seen as incompetant but it's not incompetence, they have their own agenda and that is to stop people keeping wildlife in captivity. They use Cites to stop trade in wildlife when the whole point of Cites is that sustainable trade in wildlife is positive to conservation. If they really believed that they would not have taken the stance they have over registration for breeders of App.I. species, well, when I say App.I. that's not strictly true because the latest trade data figures show they still allow commercial trade in App.I. species such as tigers and chimps, no, this position is targetting falconers/raptor breeders. I dont know what human rights laws you have over there but certainly in the EU targetting any group or individual is a preach of their human rights, USFWS are targetting falconry just as they did in the days of Operation Falcon and without a show of force you guys are going to get hammered into the ground, for sure !
No wonder the Attorney General is pushing gun control, those responsible should be afraid!
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  #56  
Old 26-04-2009, 09:46 AM
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Chicquera Chicquera is offline
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

MP's / Congressman are no longer in power, so called "civil servants" run our countries these days, even my former MP told me that. I live in a country where 50% of the working population are "civil servants", how on earth can any country operate like that ! Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, as we say, and what is the result of this, huge groups of people looking for an excuse to preserve their employment, hence all these oppressive laws and regulations that just screw the people who have an ability to create and unless these useless individuals get out of the way and let people who have a drive to be constructive operate more freely our countries have no future.
This applies to economics AND conservation, there is absolutely no reason why any species should become extinct should the habitat exist for it, captive breeding now puts "us" back in control, that's if we were allowed to create captive bred populations, but we aren't. People employed in wildlife protection have a vested interested in maintaining endangered species as precisely that, endangered, that's how they make their living, maybe not all but a high percentage have that mentality.
Where will these protectionist bodies draw the line, they focus on "non-native" but how do they define non-native, does that include sub-species because if it does it not only effects anyone wanting to fly an "exotic" but also someone who is flying Peregrines because most are non specific sub-species so those people who think "I'm alright jack" should think again !



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Originally Posted by SharpTail View Post
No wonder the Attorney General is pushing gun control, those responsible should be afraid!
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  #57  
Old 26-04-2009, 05:29 PM
Goran Goran is offline
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

Just wait and see the slaughter of feral pigs after this pig's flu.It happen in OK and on the end farmers were not happy even they complained about overpopulation.
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  #58  
Old 26-04-2009, 10:37 PM
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

Falconers and all Americans need to read this website: http://www.fija.org/index.php?page=d...221&refer=news

This is a right in our constitution that is little publicized and little known.

Everyone in the US who goes to court has the right to a FULLY INFORMED jury. Which requires the court to let the jury know of the constitutional right to nullify bad laws by not convicting.
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  #59  
Old 27-04-2009, 03:47 AM
SharpTail SharpTail is offline
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Default Re: HR669 in the US. Ban of all non native animals?

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Originally Posted by HawkMom View Post
Falconers and all Americans need to read this website: http://www.fija.org/index.php?page=d...221&refer=news

This is a right in our constitution that is little publicized and little known.

Everyone in the US who goes to court has the right to a FULLY INFORMED jury. Which requires the court to let the jury know of the constitutional right to nullify bad laws by not convicting.
Careful there Kitty, you will find yourself behind bars with my friends. Many a judge has found folks in contempt for informing juries, watch your topknot!
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