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Old 16-02-2008, 12:17 PM
Onyx25 Onyx25 is offline
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Default Blue docs

Maybe this has been covered and maybe it isnt true but could someone shed some light on this? Recently and from different people I have heard murmerings that blue docs are getting spooped? Anyone know the facts?
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Old 16-02-2008, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

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Originally Posted by Onyx25 View Post
Maybe this has been covered and maybe it isnt true but could someone shed some light on this? Recently and from different people I have heard murmerings that blue docs are getting spooped? Anyone know the facts?
Recently read an artical on schedule 4 birds, being that some species may be taken off the list as they are not @ risk possible only leaving Gyrs and Goldies on ( this is only an assumption). This is also due to costs @ DEFRA spiralling out of control apparently. If this happens maybe 2010 there will undoubtable be a cost for A10's but i don't believe they will be compulsary if birds are gifted or non breeders. For me it is worrying as the A10 could be very expensive. It's all speculation but i think it will happen in the near future.
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Old 16-02-2008, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

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Originally Posted by Onyx25 View Post
Maybe this has been covered and maybe it isnt true but could someone shed some light on this? Recently and from different people I have heard murmerings that blue docs are getting spooped? Anyone know the facts?
Hi Titus,
The Blue Document/Registration Document was due to be spooped as it was an outdated system with all the info repeated on the Article 10 Certs however after pressure being put on by the RSPB and others who claimed that the registration system was the best tool they had for prosecuting and tracking down Falconers who were dealing in illegal Birds the Government decided to keep the system although the UK is the only EC Country to have a system like this.
So the system stays in place except it is now going to cost a lot more money to register your bird. DEFRA have been told that the Government want to go for full cost recovery, in other words they have to charge us what it costs them to issue these documents and in this case it is ú98+ per document. The downside if the costings were not enough is that even though breeders are producing birds for Export and the birds will only be in the UK for about 6 to 8 weeks we still have to pay this fee along with the new scale of charges for Article 10's and CITES (see my post on the home page about this http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42613) so we are back to where we were 4 years ago.
Please read what I have said and look at the link there is an e-mail address to reply to in the document and make it clear to the Government that these charges are over the top and that we disagree with them.
Terry
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Old 16-02-2008, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Recently read an artical on schedule 4 birds, being that some species may be taken off the list as they are not @ risk possible only leaving Gyrs and Goldies on ( this is only an assumption). This is also due to costs @ DEFRA spiralling out of control apparently. If this happens maybe 2010 there will undoubtable be a cost for A10's but i don't believe they will be compulsary if birds are gifted or non breeders. For me it is worrying as the A10 could be very expensive. It's all speculation but i think it will happen in the near future.
The issue of removing some birds from the Registration Scheme is still undecided one of the birds recommended for removal are Gyr falcons as they are not endangered in the wild and are not an EC controlled bird. They are also considering the removal of Hybrids as they are not found in the wild but again the RSPB are claiming problems with lookalike birds so they want them kept on the list. There are a number of birds they want to remove and others they want to add. I am not up to speed on this issue now as my application to be a Specialist member of the Hawk Board as well as JPJ's was not accepted as it was out of time so we have a Hawk Board that consists of 4 Specialist members and not the required 6
Terry
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Old 16-02-2008, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

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Originally Posted by Kentish Falconry View Post
The issue of removing some birds from the Registration Scheme is still undecided one of the birds recommended for removal are Gyr falcons as they are not endangered in the wild and are not an EC controlled bird. They are also considering the removal of Hybrids as they are not found in the wild but again the RSPB are claiming problems with lookalike birds so they want them kept on the list. There are a number of birds they want to remove and others they want to add. I am not up to speed on this issue now as my application to be a Specialist member of the Hawk Board as well as JPJ's was not accepted as it was out of time so we have a Hawk Board that consists of 4 Specialist members and not the required 6
Terry
I'm not up to speed at all , but what do you think will realistically happen. No reg for Gyrs. Pere , Gos? in the near future expensive A10'S or will it stay the same. Thanks for the fact on the Gyrs being recommended for removal atb
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Old 16-02-2008, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

[quote=Casper;771165]I'm not up to speed at all , but what do you think will realistically happen. No reg for Gyrs. Pere , Gos? in the near future expensive A10'S or will it stay the same. Thanks for the fact on the Gyrs being recommended for removal atb[/quot

I have just spoken to Jim Chick Chairman of the Hawk board at length about this matter and he informs me that the talks with Government Ministers are still continuing and no real decisions have been made yet. He did say the RSPB are totally opposed to de-registration of any form and rather than have birds removed from the list they are looking to add birds to the list. I can say that any non indigenous birds will not be included on the list, such as the Gyr falcon so we can expect them to be removed. This will mean that there will be no requirement to register Gyr x Sakers but if Peregrines remain on the list then we will still have to register Gyr x Peregrines, Peregrine x Sakers & Peregrine x lanner.
I will keep you up to date on any further developments as they arise
Terry


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Old 16-02-2008, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

[QUOTE=Kentish Falconry;771184]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
I'm not up to speed at all , but what do you think will realistically happen. No reg for Gyrs. Pere , Gos? in the near future expensive A10'S or will it stay the same. Thanks for the fact on the Gyrs being recommended for removal atb[/quot

I have just spoken to Jim Chick Chairman of the Hawk board at length about this matter and he informs me that the talks with Government Ministers are still continuing and no real decisions have been made yet. He did say the RSPB are totally opposed to de-registration of any form and rather than have birds removed from the list they are looking to add birds to the list. I can say that any non indigenous birds will not be included on the list, such as the Gyr falcon so we can expect them to be removed. This will mean that there will be no requirement to register Gyr x Sakers but if Peregrines remain on the list then we will still have to register Gyr x Peregrines, Peregrine x Sakers & Peregrine x lanner.
I will keep you up to date on any further developments as they arise
Terry


Thanks Terry i am very surprised about the Gyr
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Old 16-02-2008, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentish Falconry View Post
They are also considering the removal of Hybrids as they are not found in the wild but again the RSPB are claiming problems with lookalike birds so they want them kept on the list. Terry
Terry, you have to laugh mate. some of these RSPB peeps don't know their arse from their elbow. I know of one who argued blind that a jackdaw that had flown into a window when they were called to the house was in fact a raven due to its shiney "coat"
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  #9  
Old 16-02-2008, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Blue docs

Hi Terry, according to one of the hawkboard the blue reg is spooped in a week or two for peregrines etc. leaving goldies and goses with reg docs
jeff



Hi TERRY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentish Falconry View Post
Hi Titus,
The Blue Document/Registration Document was due to be spooped as it was an outdated system with all the info repeated on the Article 10 Certs however after pressure being put on by the RSPB and others who claimed that the registration system was the best tool they had for prosecuting and tracking down Falconers who were dealing in illegal Birds the Government decided to keep the system although the UK is the only EC Country to have a system like this.
So the system stays in place except it is now going to cost a lot more money to register your bird. DEFRA have been told that the Government want to go for full cost recovery, in other words they have to charge us what it costs them to issue these documents and in this case it is ú98+ per document. The downside if the costings were not enough is that even though breeders are producing birds for Export and the birds will only be in the UK for about 6 to 8 weeks we still have to pay this fee along with the new scale of charges for Article 10's and CITES (see my post on the home page about this http://www.falconryforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42613) so we are back to where we were 4 years ago.
Please read what I have said and look at the link there is an e-mail address to reply to in the document and make it clear to the Government that these charges are over the top and that we disagree with them.
Terry
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  #10  
Old 16-02-2008, 07:42 PM
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Falcons7 Falcons7 is offline
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Default Re: Blue docs

I had a guy out with my falcons at Calender once who was EMPLOYED to monitor Black Game in that area by the RSPB ,I asked how many were on Invertrosicks Estate and he said only maybe a couple ,I said I thought there were many more to which he disagreed,fair enough.My dog went on point near the forest and I knew what was coming next, then up got a covey ,'' oh ,thats a nice covey(14) of Grouse he said, I said ''whats your job'' ,he told me again, I said he should pack in ,he ,with a grump ask why ,I said those Reg grouse that got up under ya nose are BLACKGAME ,his face was priceless and as we could still see them heading off over the forest he embarrisenly had to agree.
JEFF



Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldie View Post
Terry, you have to laugh mate. some of these RSPB peeps don't know their arse from their elbow. I know of one who argued blind that a jackdaw that had flown into a window when they were called to the house was in fact a raven due to its shiney "coat"
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