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  #261  
Old 26-06-2013, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Sprout View Post
Amazing - for something you have never done you have a strong opinion. You are however quite right about the risks, however EVERY procedure, no matter how benign or invasive, has risks - including basic casting a hawk. When I started this thread I presumed a degree of common sense and practicality amongst the forum members, however over time that presumption has proven to be rather naive of me.
I stand by my position that crop tubing IS a simple procedure, and it most certainly IS a life saving procedure in the right situations - but again, a degree of common sense is required. I've never been taught the heimlich manoeuvre, or how to perform CPCR on a person correctly, however if a person was dying in front of me I'm pretty sure I'd want to do something to help, not leave them dying awaiting the Emergency services when something I could have done may have saved their life? A Sparrowhawk fitting because of hypoglycaemia will be dead well before the vets can be reached - so what do you do? Let it die, or crop tube it knowing the risks? There MAY be a small risk of inhalational pneumonia as you described, however the risk of death by failing to act should outweigh that - balancing the pro's and cons's of every procedure. But I do agree that this should be something taught and practised FIRST in advance.
The point of this thread was to help people PREPARE. The one message I have always tried to get across is is is ALWAYS better to be prepared than to be forced into a situation. I learned by crop tubing dead pigeons and quail, went on raptor first aid courses etc BEFORE ever needed to even consider having to crop tube a hawk in anger.
However, my thoughts on this have now changed and I do agree with you - I find it amazing that many people can't even make their own jesses or anklets, don't understand the basics of managing their hawks weight or even basic diet, hove no comprehension of the ailments that may afflict their hawks - if modern day "falconers" can't even be bothered to prepare for the basics then I am 100% in agreement with you that they shouldn't attempt crop tubing. Shame some hawks are seen as such throw away items now a days people can't be bothered putting in the proper research and preparation (including basic skills) before buying said hawk.
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  #262  
Old 27-06-2013, 06:46 AM
Altomar718 Altomar718 is offline
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Wink Re: Emergency First Aid

Its not amazing that I have an opinion, I would say I have a good knowledge of first aid and anatomy and physiology having been a paramedic for twenty years and the managing director of my own company delivering first aid courses for businesses and also a Health and Safety Executive assessor ..... I think we agree that you cant just go poking tubes down and it is a skill which needs to be taught and as you quite rightly say, practiced.
The point I was trying to make is summed in in your quote " however if a person was dying in front of me I'm pretty sure I'd want to do something to help, not leave them dying awaiting the Emergency services when something I could have done may have saved their life" ...... What if you put your hands in the wrong place and break ribs (and even in the Ambulance Service, somebody tried to sue someone for that) or blow too hard or quickly in a person forcing air into the stomach amd making them sick which will go into the lungs > infection > pneumonia > death 4 days later ...... the wrong rate of compressions etc. etc. - Skills have to be learned from someone who knows, and as you say, BEFORE the event ..... So to summarize, I think we are both right and we both agree with each other - - - We just didn't know it Ha! Ha!
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  #263  
Old 27-06-2013, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

Life and death situation. No paramedics nearby.

Break a rib, or get my heart restarted.

I hope someone would be brave enough to try and get my heart beating, and not worry too much about the rib.
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  #264  
Old 27-06-2013, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Altomar718 View Post
I think we are both right and we both agree with each other - - - We just didn't know it Ha! Ha!
Very possibly - forums are like that
All I can suggest is that if you have never crop tubed a bird, or seen it done - then get practising NOW or ask someone to show you. You never know if or when you may need it, but in the right circumstances WILL save a hawks life.

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Originally Posted by Sue2 View Post
Life and death situation. No paramedics nearby.

Break a rib, or get my heart restarted.

I hope someone would be brave enough to try and get my heart beating, and not worry too much about the rib.
Very true Sue - it is a sad and worrying world when a person is more concerned about whether they have the correct certificate in their CV before being willing to attempt to save a persons life.

Http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...udio-recording
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  #265  
Old 27-06-2013, 08:13 AM
Altomar718 Altomar718 is offline
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

Nothing to do with this but there was a woman in USA (of course) who collapsed and the Ambulance crew resuscitated her, being discharged from hospital making a full recovery ....... she went to a lawyer and said that as been as she had breast implants and they stick up like they do, the crew must have touched them and tried to sue them for touching her up !!!
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  #266  
Old 27-06-2013, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

Are we by chance confusing hypoglaecemia with hypothermia,
?

No amount of croptubed glucose will save a spar thats wet and freezing to death. It just doesnt make sense me.
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  #267  
Old 27-06-2013, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Are we by chance confusing hypoglaecemia with hypothermia,
?

No amount of croptubed glucose will save a spar thats wet and freezing to death. It just doesnt make sense me.
My spar took a mallard and went stright into a pond in freezing conditions. i ran in stright away and got her out as soon as i put her on the bank she just stood there and then wobbled abit. i wrapped her up and ran about a mile to get home and got the hairdryer on her once she was dry and warm she still had no intrest in feeding and had to be crop tubed twice and then feed chopped meat soaked in critical care before she started to perk up. Iknow if i hadnt of dryed her off crop tubing would have been useless but at the same time if i hadnt of crop tubed agter drying she would have died for sure.

Atb kevin
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  #268  
Old 27-06-2013, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Sprout View Post
I stand by my position that crop tubing IS a simple procedure, and it most certainly IS a life saving procedure in the right situations - but again, a degree of common sense is required.
I taught myself to crop tube from the instructions and explanatory pictures in Neil Forbes' 'Field First Aid for Birds of Prey'. I hardly dare admit that... but it's a fact that we don't all live close to an avian vet and I'm not having my bird die because I can't reach one fast enough.
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  #269  
Old 27-06-2013, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Shoney View Post
My spar took a mallard and went stright into a pond in freezing conditions. i ran in stright away and got her out as soon as i put her on the bank she just stood there and then wobbled abit. i wrapped her up and ran about a mile to get home and got the hairdryer on her once she was dry and warm she still had no intrest in feeding and had to be crop tubed twice and then feed chopped meat soaked in critical care before she started to perk up. Iknow if i hadnt of dryed her off crop tubing would have been useless but at the same time if i hadnt of crop tubed agter drying she would have died for sure.

atb kevin
My respects Kevin for your swift action. The drying and heat was obviously crucial. But we cant be sure about the rest. Anyway, better safe than sorry. Luckily you knew how to croptube. If you didnt, that might have killed her forsure!
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  #270  
Old 27-06-2013, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Joe View Post
Are we by chance confusing hypoglaecemia with hypothermia,
?

No amount of croptubed glucose will save a spar thats wet and freezing to death. It just doesnt make sense me.
Nope I'd hope I'd know the difference by now
Although they may be closely linked - hypothermia may result in hypoglycaemia ultimately.
As Kevin's post above shows - common sense is critical.
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