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  #251  
Old 30-01-2013, 08:25 PM
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Sprout Sprout is offline
Karl
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Little Joe View Post
Excuse me for being judgemental, but if you get a bird into that state in the field, and you dont have the hour or two to get to a vet, you are flying your spar too low and have no business crop tubing!
I know of at least 2 spars this season - been flown in good condition by people who know what they are doing, start seizuring (most likely due to hypoglycaemia) after getting wet flying after waterhens. It doesn't take much for a 250g spar to go too low when being flown to their limits.
Conversely, anyone who doesn't know how to crop tube shouldn't be flying a spar.
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  #252  
Old 30-01-2013, 08:50 PM
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Macavelli Macavelli is offline
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Sprout View Post
I know of at least 2 spars this season - been flown in good condition by people who know what they are doing, start seizuring (most likely due to hypoglycaemia) after getting wet flying after waterhens. It doesn't take much for a 250g spar to go too low when being flown to their limits.
Conversely, anyone who doesn't know how to crop tube shouldn't be flying a spar.
Very true mate when happend to my hawk she was in good condition too high if I remember rightly my hawk took a fit seizure never went low in condition.

Atb
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  #253  
Old 01-02-2013, 03:20 PM
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Little Joe Little Joe is offline
Jannes Kruger
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Sprout View Post
I know of at least 2 spars this season - been flown in good condition by people who know what they are doing, start seizuring (most likely due to hypoglycaemia) after getting wet flying after waterhens. It doesn't take much for a 250g spar to go too low when being flown to their limits.
Conversely, anyone who doesn't know how to crop tube shouldn't be flying a spar.
Okay, maybe my statement was hasty.
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  #254  
Old 01-02-2013, 03:29 PM
TomOlivia TomOlivia is offline
Michael Calvin
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Macavelli View Post
Very true mate when happend to my hawk she was in good condition too high if I remember rightly my hawk took a fit seizure never went low in condition.

Atb
Interesting. A mate of mine used to fly imprint Spars and got great results out of them. In good enough condition and well enough handled to take three cock blackies in 45 minutes on a very cold winters morning but also nearly losing the same hawk to a hypo fit.
Luckily he knew what he was doing and acted fast.
Very tricky little customers and hats off to those who fly them well
Michael.
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  #255  
Old 09-02-2013, 12:58 AM
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Karl
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Macavelli View Post
Very true mate when happend to my hawk she was in good condition too high if I remember rightly my hawk took a fit seizure never went low in condition.

Atb
There is an explanation of why this happens in the book about to be released by Ben Crane
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  #256  
Old 25-02-2013, 08:03 PM
Walshy0988 Walshy0988 is offline
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

Hi don't know if there's anything wrong but I've noticed that my mhh shakes his head more so when on glove.its only a quick shake but very fast any ideas cheers walshy
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  #257  
Old 27-02-2013, 01:33 PM
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Little Joe Little Joe is offline
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

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Originally Posted by Walshy0988 View Post
Hi don't know if there's anything wrong but I've noticed that my mhh shakes his head more so when on glove.its only a quick shake but very fast any ideas cheers walshy
Assuming hes not hooded when he does it, and it happens often, you might want to let a vet check into his ears.

Rgds,
Jannes
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  #258  
Old 26-06-2013, 08:24 AM
Altomar718 Altomar718 is offline
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

Amazing - as a Paramedic, I had to study for months and months, work in Intensive Care, the Coronary Care Unit and carry out intubations under the guidance of Consultant Anesthetists to be able to to stick a bit of 'old drip tubing' down someone throat and yet, it is simple. I admit, the ET Tubes we would use would be into the trachea (windpipe) and not the esophagus but ANY invasive procedure has dangers. Although I have never crop tubed, I should imagine the biggest danger is aspiration of the fluids into the lungs upon withdrawal of the tube (excess fluid running into the lungs) and once ANYTHING has entered the lungs, it cannot be got out but will work it's way further in and cause a possible infection leading to pneumonia and possible death. I think you need to see a vet to have the procedure explained or a falconer with LOTS of experience before you go poking around in a birds insides ............
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  #259  
Old 26-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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Little Joe Little Joe is offline
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

I share your viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by Altomar718 View Post
Amazing - as a Paramedic, I had to study for months and months, work in Intensive Care, the Coronary Care Unit and carry out intubations under the guidance of Consultant Anesthetists to be able to to stick a bit of 'old drip tubing' down someone throat and yet, it is simple. I admit, the ET Tubes we would use would be into the trachea (windpipe) and not the esophagus but ANY invasive procedure has dangers. Although I have never crop tubed, I should imagine the biggest danger is aspiration of the fluids into the lungs upon withdrawal of the tube (excess fluid running into the lungs) and once ANYTHING has entered the lungs, it cannot be got out but will work it's way further in and cause a possible infection leading to pneumonia and possible death. I think you need to see a vet to have the procedure explained or a falconer with LOTS of experience before you go poking around in a birds insides ............
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  #260  
Old 26-06-2013, 08:22 PM
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Karl
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Default Re: Emergency First Aid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altomar718 View Post
Amazing - as a Paramedic, I had to study for months and months, work in Intensive Care, the Coronary Care Unit and carry out intubations under the guidance of Consultant Anesthetists to be able to to stick a bit of 'old drip tubing' down someone throat and yet, it is simple. I admit, the ET Tubes we would use would be into the trachea (windpipe) and not the esophagus but ANY invasive procedure has dangers. Although I have never crop tubed, I should imagine the biggest danger is aspiration of the fluids into the lungs upon withdrawal of the tube (excess fluid running into the lungs) and once ANYTHING has entered the lungs, it cannot be got out but will work it's way further in and cause a possible infection leading to pneumonia and possible death. I think you need to see a vet to have the procedure explained or a falconer with LOTS of experience before you go poking around in a birds insides ............
Amazing - for something you have never done you have a strong opinion. You are however quite right about the risks, however EVERY procedure, no matter how benign or invasive, has risks - including basic casting a hawk. When I started this thread I presumed a degree of common sense and practicality amongst the forum members, however over time that presumption has proven to be rather naive of me.
I stand by my position that crop tubing IS a simple procedure, and it most certainly IS a life saving procedure in the right situations - but again, a degree of common sense is required. I've never been taught the heimlich manoeuvre, or how to perform CPCR on a person correctly, however if a person was dying in front of me I'm pretty sure I'd want to do something to help, not leave them dying awaiting the Emergency services when something I could have done may have saved their life? A Sparrowhawk fitting because of hypoglycaemia will be dead well before the vets can be reached - so what do you do? Let it die, or crop tube it knowing the risks? There MAY be a small risk of inhalational pneumonia as you described, however the risk of death by failing to act should outweigh that - balancing the pro's and cons's of every procedure. But I do agree that this should be something taught and practised FIRST in advance.
The point of this thread was to help people PREPARE. The one message I have always tried to get across is is is ALWAYS better to be prepared than to be forced into a situation. I learned by crop tubing dead pigeons and quail, went on raptor first aid courses etc BEFORE ever needed to even consider having to crop tube a hawk in anger.
However, my thoughts on this have now changed and I do agree with you - I find it amazing that many people can't even make their own jesses or anklets, don't understand the basics of managing their hawks weight or even basic diet, hove no comprehension of the ailments that may afflict their hawks - if modern day "falconers" can't even be bothered to prepare for the basics then I am 100% in agreement with you that they shouldn't attempt crop tubing. Shame some hawks are seen as such throw away items now a days people can't be bothered putting in the proper research and preparation (including basic skills) before buying said hawk.
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